<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Agony and Ivory</title>
	<atom:link href="http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2003/01/14/agony-and-ivory/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2003/01/14/agony-and-ivory/</link>
	<description>Things that Eric A. Meyer, CSS expert, writes about on his personal Web site; it&#039;s largely Web standards and Web technology, but also various bits of culture, politics, personal observations, and other miscellaneous stuff</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Fri, 19 Mar 2010 00:27:46 -0400</lastBuildDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2</generator>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
	</channel>
</rss>
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN"
        "http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/loose.dtd">
<html>
<head profile="http://gmpg.org/xfn/1">
<title>meyerweb.com</title>
<link rel="openid.server" href="http://www.myopenid.com/server">
<link rel="openid.delegate" href="http://emeyer.myopenid.com/">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"><link rel="shortcut icon" href="/favicon.ico"><link rel="home" href="http://meyerweb.com/" title="Home" ><link rel="stylesheet" href="http://meyerweb.com/ui/meyerweb.css" type="text/css" media="screen, projection"><link rel="stylesheet" href="http://meyerweb.com/ui/theme.css" type="text/css" media="screen, projection" id="themeLink"><link rel="stylesheet" href="http://meyerweb.com/ui/print.css" type="text/css" media="print"><script src="http://meyerweb.com/ui/addresses.js" type="text/javascript"></script><link rel="stylesheet" href="/ui/wordpress.css" type="text/css" media="screen">
<link rel="stylesheet" href="/ui/tfe.css" type="text/css" media="screen">
<link rel="stylesheet" href="/ui/home.css" type="text/css" media="screen">
<link rel="alternate" type="application/rss+xml" title="Thoughts From Eric" href="/eric/thoughts/rss2/full" />
<link rel="alternate" type="application/rss+xml" title="Thoughts From Eric (only technical posts)" href="/eric/thoughts/category/tech/rss2/full" />
<link rel="alternate" type="application/rss+xml" title="Thoughts From Eric (only personal posts)" href="/eric/thoughts/category/personal/rss2/full" />
<link rel="alternate" type="application/rss+xml" title="Distractions" href="/eric/thoughts/recent-links/rss2" />
<link rel="alternate" type="application/rss+xml" title="Excuse of the Day" href="/feeds/excuse/rss20.xml" />
</head>
<body id="www-meyerweb-com" class="hpg">

<div id="sitemast"><h1><a href="/"><span>meyerweb</span>.com</a></h1></div><div id="search"><h4>Exploration</h4><!-- SiteSearch Google --><form method="get" action="http://www.google.com/custom" target="_top"><div><input type="hidden" name="domains" value="meyerweb.com"></input><label for="sbb" style="display: none">Submit search form</label><input type="submit" name="sa" value="Google Search" id="sbb"></input><label for="sbi" style="display: none">Enter your search terms</label><input type="text" name="q" size="31" maxlength="255" value="" id="sbi"></input><p><input type="radio" name="sitesearch" value="meyerweb.com" checked id="ss1"></input><label for="ss1" title="Search meyerweb.com">meyerweb.com</label><input type="radio" name="sitesearch" value="" id="ss0"></input><label for="ss0" title="Search the Web">Web</label></p><input type="hidden" name="client" value="pub-3772084027748653"></input><input type="hidden" name="forid" value="1"></input><input type="hidden" name="ie" value="ISO-8859-1"></input><input type="hidden" name="oe" value="ISO-8859-1"></input><input type="hidden" name="safe" value="active"></input><input type="hidden" name="cof" value="GALT:#008000;GL:1;DIV:#336699;VLC:663399;AH:center;BGC:FFFFFF;LBGC:336699;ALC:0000FF;LC:0000FF;T:000000;GFNT:0000FF;GIMP:0000FF;FORID:1"></input><input type="hidden" name="hl" value="en"></input></div></form><!-- SiteSearch Google --><!-- <form method="get" action="http://www.google.com/custom"><div><input type="submit" name="sa" value="Search"><input type="text" name="q" size="20" maxlength="255" value=""><input type="hidden" name="sitesearch" value="meyerweb.com"></div></form><small><a href="http://www.google.com/search">Powered by Google</a></small> --></div><div id="main"><div class="skipper">Skip to: <a href="#extra">site navigation/presentation</a></div><div class="skipper">Skip to: <a href="#thoughts">Thoughts From Eric</a></div>
<div id="thoughts">


<div class="entry">
<h3><a href="http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2003/01/14/agony-and-ivory/" rel="bookmark" title="Permanent Link: Agony and Ivory">Agony and Ivory</a></h3>
<ul class="meta">
<li class="date">Tue 14 Jan 2003</li>
<li class="time">0000</li>
<li class="cat"><a href="http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/category/tech/browsers/" title="View all posts in Browsers" rel="category tag">Browsers</a><br> <a href="http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/category/tech/standards/" title="View all posts in Standards" rel="category tag">Standards</a><br> <a href="http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/category/tech/web/" title="View all posts in Web" rel="category tag">Web</a></li>
<li class="cmt"><a href="http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2003/01/14/agony-and-ivory/#comments">No responses</a></li>
<li>Posting off</li><li></li></ul>

<div class="text">
<p>
I&#8217;m feeling better, thanks.  About most things, anyway.
</p>
<p>
If you&#8217;re seeing layout or other rendering bugs on this site in <a href="http://www.apple.com/safari/" title="Apple's new browser">Safari</a>, as some people have said they are, please use the bug icon in the browser to report the problem.  I can&#8217;t run Safari or else I&#8217;d report problems myself.  Apparently there are some weirdnesses with the navigation links in the sidebar, if nothing else.  Whatever problem you see, it&#8217;s worth reporting, so please do.
</p>
<p>
Most of you probably already know that <a href="http://diveintomark.org/" title="Mark Pilgim's Web site">Mark Pilgrim</a> is <a href="http://diveintomark.org/archives/2003/01/13.html#semantic_obsolescence" title="diveintomark.org: 'Semantic obsolescence'">upset with XHTML 2.0</a>, and many of you may be aware that <a href="http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-html/2003Jan/0123.html" title="www-html: 'XHTML 2.0 Considered Harmful'">Tantek</a> and <a href="http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-html/2002Dec/0113.html" title="www-html: 'comments on 2002-12-12 XHTML 2.0 WD'">Daniel Glazman</a> are in agreement.  I&#8217;m broadly sympathetic with their frustrations, but since I was never that thrilled with XHTML in the first place, I can&#8217;t get too worked up about the breaks between 1.x and 2.0.  I never really got why HTML had to be reformulated as XML.  Yes, I&#8217;ve read all the arguments about later ease of conversion and all that.  I suppose there was some good in easing authors into XML authoring habits using a language they mostly recognized.  That just didn&#8217;t seem like enough.  This site has been, and continues to be, HTML 4.01 Transitional for a reason.
</p>
<p>
I do broadly agree that XHTML 2.0 is way too unrealistic for its own good.  It outright drops too many things authors find useful, like the <code>style</code> attribute (although I admit I&#8217;m biased there) and heading elements.  For that matter, yes, Virginia, there <em>is</em> a difference between <code>abbr</code> and <code>acronym</code>, so dropping either one seems like a mistake.  On the other hand, if this stuff was deprecated instead of eliminated, I&#8217;d have many fewer points of concern about XHTML 2.0.  I&#8217;d be worried that the deprecated stuff would be dropped in the next version of XHTML, but XHTML 2.0 would bother me less.
</p>
<p>
Then again, given that you can take XML and CSS and create your own documents out of whatever markup language you can invent, and use XSLT to bridge the gap between old browsers and new ones, I find XHTML to be of minor import.  If it gets too ivory, then it will be ignored, and some other XML-based language will take it place.  Or, more likely, lots of markup languages.  Either way it will be interesting, and the XHTML 2.0 advocates won&#8217;t be able to blame anyone else for the explosion of non-interoperable languages.  Which, I suppose, is the point of all the <i>sturm und drang</i> of late.  If XHTML 2.0 were interoperable with XHTML 1.1, people wouldn&#8217;t be nearly so upset.
</p>
<p>
Wow&#8230; all this concern over making things work together.  Can it be that the Web is getting all growed up?
</p></div>

</div>

</div>
<p style="font-size: 90%; text-align: right; margin-top: 0.5em; padding-top: 0;">(If you care, there's even an <a href="/eric/thoughts/page/2/">archive of previous thoughts</a>...)</p>

</div><div id="extra"><div class="panel" id="archipelago"><h4>Identity Archipelago</h4><ul><li><a href="http://flickr.com/photos/meyerweb/" rel="me">Flickr</a></li><li><a href="http://twitter.com/meyerweb/" rel="me">Twitter</a></li><li><a href="http://dopplr.com/traveller/meyerweb">Dopplr</a></li><li><a href="http://www.linkedin.com/in/meyerweb" rel="me">LinkedIn</a></li><li><a href="http://technorati.com/profile/emeyer" rel="me">Technorati</a></li></ul></div><div class="panel" id="pointers"><h4>Projects Elsewhere</h4><ul><li><a href="http://aneventapart.com/">An Event Apart</a></li><li><a href="http://complexspiral.com/">Complex Spiral Consulting</a></li><li><a href="http://www.webassist.com/go/css/emeyer/">CSS Sculptor</a></li><li><a href="http://css-discuss.org/">css-discuss</a></li><li><a href="http://microformats.org/">Microformats</a></li><li><a href="http://s5project.org/">S5</a></li></ul></div><div class="panel" id="tour"><ul><li><a href="http://fray.com/issue3/"><img src="http://fray.com/images/i3c.gif" alt="Fray Contributor (Issue 3: Sex &amp; Death)" /></a></li><!-- <li><a href="http://www.webassist.com/go/css/emeyer/"><img src="/pix/CS_ad_180x109.jpg" alt="CSS Sculptor for Dreamweaver" style="max-width: 100%;" /></a></li> --></ul></div><div class="panel">
<h4>Recently Tweeted</h4>
<p class="more"><a href="http://twitter.com/meyerweb">see more</a></p>
<p>I think the fortune in my Chinese fortune cookie was written by Grover Norquist.  I bet he's getting paid for those off the books. <small>&#8211;tweeted 13 hours, 23 minutes ago</small></p>
</div><div id="sideblog" class="panel">
<h4>Distractions</h4>
<p class="more">
<a href="/eric/thoughts/recent-links/">archive</a>
</p>
<ul>
<li><a href="http://tweetagewasteland.com/2010/03/my-head-is-in-the-cloud/" title="March 18 | &#8220;I sense that my addiction to the realtime stream is only making room for the consumption of a faster stream.&#8221;">My Head is in the Cloud</a> <small>[via <a href="http://daringfireball.net/">John</a>]</small></li>
<li><a href="http://8bitnyc.com/" title="March 17 | All of a sudden I want to establish a mission in Central Park and negotiate with the natives for gold and food.">8-Bit NYC</a></li>
<li><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nFicqklGuB0&amp;feature=player_embedded" title="March 12 | Wry comment expressing my appreciation of the creative derivativeness of this video and its uncanny accuracy in mocking common tropes.">Academy Award Winning Movie Trailer</a></li>
<li><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=414TmP12WAU" title="March 9 | &#8220;Apple juice&#8230; for half price!&#8221;  More like twice PRICELESS.  (Note: If you&#8217;re at work, don your headphones.)">Happy in Paraguay</a> <small>[via <a href="http://unstoppablerobotninja.com/">Ethan</a>]</small></li>
<li><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9V5ubAOeOBk&amp;feature=player_embedded" title="February 10 | This is approximately the best thing ever.">U900 -Walk Don&#8217;t Run (Isogabamaware)</a></li>
<li><a href="http://www.456bereastreet.com/archive/201002/sifr_default_css_hides_content_from_at_least_one_screen_reader/?utm_source=feedburner&amp;utm_medium=feed&amp;utm_campaign=Feed%3A 456bereastreet %28456 Berea Street%29" title="February 8 | -9999px comes through again, but I really wish we were beyond that kind of thing.">sIFR default CSS hides content from at least one screen reader</a></li>
<li><a href="http://www.macosxhints.com/article.php?story=20100117064356428" title="February 8 | Storing this for future use.">Take a picture with the iSight camera when a folder is opened</a></li>
<li><a href="http://mingle2.com/blog/view/web-developer-mind" title="February 4 | Mostly valid.  (SEE WHAT I DID THERE?)">The Mind of a Web Developer: An Illustrated Diagram</a></li>
<li><a href="http://www.theonion.com/content/news/science_channel_refuses_to_dumb" title="January 28 | &#8220;Punkin Chunkin, for Christ&#8217;s sake&#8230; What more do you people want?&#8221;">Science Channel Refuses To Dumb Down Science Any Further</a></li>
<li><a href="http://www.mailchimp.com/blog/project-omnivore-declassified/" title="January 27 | Sounds like quite a feat.  But I wonder how we&#8217;d feel if Microsoft or Google announced the same kind of thing on their e-mail services.">MailChimp&#8217;s Project Omnivore: Declassified</a></li>
<li><a href="http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2010/jan/25/carolyn-maloney/congresswoman-says-democratic-presidents-create-mo/" title="January 26 | &#8220;Obviously, luck matters a lot, but when there is a consistent pattern over more than 60 years, it starts to look like more than just luck.&#8221;">Congresswoman says Democratic presidents create more private-sector jobs</a></li>
<li><a href="http://www.ted.com/talks/taylor_mali_what_teachers_make.html" title="January 25 | Truth.">Taylor Mali: What teachers make</a></li>
<li><a href="http://notebook.johnmartz.com/how-websites-work?c=1" title="January 22 | At last, the truth is out and I can stop pretending:  beatific monkeys are what makes it all go.">How websites work</a></li>
</ul>
</div>
<div class="panel" id="advisory">
<div class="guarded">
<a href="http://blogadvisorysystem.com/"><img src="/pix/bas/guarded.png" alt="Blog Advisory System Alert Level: Guarded"></a>
</div>
</div>

<div class="panel" id="excuse">
<h4>The <a href="/feeds/excuse/">excuse of the day</a> is</h4>
<p>neutrino interactions</p>
</div>

<div class="panel" id="extras">
<h4>Extras</h4>
<ul>
<li><a href="/feeds/">Feeds</a> &#8226;</li>
<li><a href="/eric/faq.html">FAQ</a> &#8226;</li>
<li><a href="/family.html">Family</a></li>
</ul>
</div>

</div>

<div id="navigate">
<h4>Navigation</h4>
<ul id="navlinks">
<li id="archLink"><a href="/eric/thoughts/">Archives</a></li>
<li id="cssLink"><a href="/eric/css/">CSS</a></li>
<li id="toolsLink"><a href="/eric/tools/">Toolbox</a></li>
<li id="writeLink"><a href="/eric/writing.html">Writing</a></li>
<li id="speakLink"><a href="/eric/talks/">Speaking</a></li>
<li id="otherLink"><a href="/other/">Leftovers</a></li>
<li id="aboutsite"><a href="/ui/about.html">About this site</a></li>
</ul>
</div>

<div id="footer">
<p class="sosumi">All contents of this site, unless otherwise noted, are &copy;1995-2008 <strong>Eric A. and Kathryn S. Meyer</strong>.  All Rights Reserved.</p>
<p>"<a href="/eric/thoughts/">Thoughts From Eric</a>" is powered by the &uuml;bercool <a href="http://wordpress.org/">WordPress</a></p>
</div>
</body>
</html>
