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	<title>Comments on: Silly Expert Opinions</title>
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	<link>http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2004/08/13/silly-expert-opinions/</link>
	<description>Things that Eric A. Meyer, CSS expert, writes about on his personal Web site; it&#039;s largely Web standards and Web technology, but also various bits of culture, politics, personal observations, and other miscellaneous stuff</description>
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		<title>By: Petroglyphs</title>
		<link>http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2004/08/13/silly-expert-opinions/#comment-665</link>
		<dc:creator>Petroglyphs</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Aug 2004 23:55:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2004/08/13/silly-expert-opinions/#comment-665</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;Silly result set 1&lt;/strong&gt;
The first results of the experiment are in, and they&#039;d seem to indicate that...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>Silly result set 1</strong><br />
The first results of the experiment are in, and they&#8217;d seem to indicate that&#8230;</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Cre8site forums</title>
		<link>http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2004/08/13/silly-expert-opinions/#comment-663</link>
		<dc:creator>Cre8site forums</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Aug 2004 23:25:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2004/08/13/silly-expert-opinions/#comment-663</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;SES slammed by designers&lt;/strong&gt;
...Not really a good test at all as I would suggest there are a good few more people with the name Matt Bailey than there are Eric Meyer...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>SES slammed by designers</strong><br />
&#8230;Not really a good test at all as I would suggest there are a good few more people with the name Matt Bailey than there are Eric Meyer&#8230;</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Petroglyphs</title>
		<link>http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2004/08/13/silly-expert-opinions/#comment-652</link>
		<dc:creator>Petroglyphs</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Aug 2004 06:25:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2004/08/13/silly-expert-opinions/#comment-652</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;Silly expert experiment&lt;/strong&gt;
Eric Meyer suggests what sounds like a fun search-engine experiment.  So here&#039;s what I&#039;ve done...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>Silly expert experiment</strong><br />
Eric Meyer suggests what sounds like a fun search-engine experiment.  So here&#8217;s what I&#8217;ve done&#8230;</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Petroglyphs</title>
		<link>http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2004/08/13/silly-expert-opinions/#comment-651</link>
		<dc:creator>Petroglyphs</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Aug 2004 05:50:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2004/08/13/silly-expert-opinions/#comment-651</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;Silly expert experiment&lt;/strong&gt;
Can anyone confirm that engines like Google actually make use of heading elements in determining page rank? I&#039;m looking for a link to actual results demonstrating the effect of headings on Google&#039;s ranking of a page; if you have one handy, kindly dro...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>Silly expert experiment</strong><br />
Can anyone confirm that engines like Google actually make use of heading elements in determining page rank? I&#8217;m looking for a link to actual results demonstrating the effect of headings on Google&#8217;s ranking of a page; if you have one handy, kindly dro&#8230;</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: molly.com &#187; and what of the consumer?</title>
		<link>http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2004/08/13/silly-expert-opinions/#comment-656</link>
		<dc:creator>molly.com &#187; and what of the consumer?</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2004/08/13/silly-expert-opinions/#comment-656</guid>
		<description>[...] ndards by which to measure a web design &amp; development agency; the client may have been &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2004/08/13/silly-expert-opinions/&quot;&gt;hooked into the crap&lt;/a&gt; that the slimy SEOs serve up as if it all led to ins [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] ndards by which to measure a web design &#038; development agency; the client may have been <a href="http://www.meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2004/08/13/silly-expert-opinions/">hooked into the crap</a> that the slimy SEOs serve up as if it all led to ins [...]</p>
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<h3><a href="http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2004/08/13/silly-expert-opinions/" rel="bookmark" title="Permanent Link: Silly Expert Opinions">Silly Expert Opinions</a></h3>
<ul class="meta">
<li class="date">Fri 13 Aug 2004</li>
<li class="time">2315</li>
<li class="cat"><a href="http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/category/tech/standards/" title="View all posts in Standards" rel="category tag">Standards</a></li>
<li class="cmt"><a href="http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2004/08/13/silly-expert-opinions/#comments">Five responses</a></li>
<li>Posting off</li><li></li></ul>

<div class="text">
<p>
Live, from San Jose, it&#8217;s <a href="http://compooter.org/article/68/craptastic-SES-2004/" title="the craptastic adventures of SES San Jose 2004">the craptastic adventures of SES San Jose 2004</a>!  Apparently a trio of <acronym title="Search Engine Optimization">SEO</acronym> experts decided to share their views on &#8220;Advanced Design Issues&#8221;, which included the use of Javascript and CSS.  Because, obviously, expertise in one area automatically confers expertise in another, by which logic I will now declare myself an expert in cellular biology.  <a href="http://www.photomatt.net/" rel="met colleague" title="Photo Matt">Photo Matt</a>, from whom I got this URL, drily observed &#8220;write HTML like it&#8217;s 1997&#8243;.  Funny, but not quite accurate.  Nobody <em>ever</em> wrote Web pages like these people advocate.  The idea that some people might do so is a troubling thought.  Note to the SES conference organizers: in the future, you might want to think about having people stick to what they know, so as to avoid diluting your conference&#8217;s value.
</p>
<p>
I&#8217;m not going to go through and rebut every point, because it would be pointless to do so.  Most readers of this site will be able to formulate their own rebuttals, assuming of course that they aren&#8217;t incapacitated by laughter, astonishment, or some combination of the two.  I will draw attention to the one point they might have gotten partly right.  It&#8217;s:
</p>

<blockquote>Image replacement makes your site inaccessible.</blockquote>

<p>
Much has been written about various image replacement techniques and the accessibility problems they present, so that sounds like our trippy triumvirate could have been on the money there.  However, were they talking about replacing text with images, as with the FIR and so on, or replacing images with text?  Because if it&#8217;s the latter, then we have a case of fully consistent unreality.  And where do they get off worry about accessibility, given the rest of their advice?
</p>
<p>
In light of recent commentary from <a href="http://www.zeldman.com/daily/0804b.shtml" title="Silence and Noise">Jeffrey</a> and <a href="http://www.molly.com/2004/08/12/keep-asking-the-same-questions/" title="keep asking the same questions">Molly</a>, among others, I was particularly interested to read the following:
</p>

<blockquote>Do not put the entire contents of your page in an &lt;h1&gt;, rather put only <em>half</em> inside an &lt;h1&gt; and stick the other half in an &lt;h2&gt; or other header tag.</blockquote>

<p>
It would seem that, at least for some segments of the industry, we are indeed wasting our energy talking about the proper use of heading levels.  That&#8217;s way, way too far ahead of where they are right now.  We need to be telling them about the fundamentals of how document ought to be structured, in the optimistic hope that they&#8217;ll one day   After all:
</p>

<blockquote>Don&#8217;t validate your code under any circumstances because hierarchically correct and valid markup is of no use to a search engine.</blockquote>

<p>
On which note, can anyone confirm that engines like Google actually make use of heading elements in determining page rank?  I&#8217;m looking for a link to actual results demonstrating the effect of headings on Google&#8217;s ranking of a page; if you have one handy, kindly drop it to me via e-mail.  I&#8217;d just like to know one way or the other.  Google employees are particularly encouraged to write me about this.
</p>
<p>
I suddenly have the urge to do a round of the SEO conference circuit to set the record straight.  I wonder how one might go about that?  After all, I&#8217;m more of an SEO expert than at least two of these SEO &#8220;experts&#8221;: <a href="http://www.google.com/search?q=%22eric+meyer%22&#038;ie=UTF-8&#038;oe=UTF-8" title="Google search results for 'Eric Meyer'">Googling for &#8220;Eric Meyer&#8221;</a> gets you my home page as the #1 result, but searching for one name returns his site at #3, just behind an Assistant Professor of Engineering Management at University of Missouri-Rolla and a blog written by a fan of Howard Dean.  The other one didn&#8217;t even show up in the first ten Google results, so far as I could tell, and I was searching for his <em>name</em>.
</p>
<p>
So perhaps it&#8217;s time I looked into what it takes to be a presenter at SES/SEO conferences.
</p>
<p>
<em><strong>Update:</strong> please see <a href="http://www.meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2004/08/18/ses-san-jose-corrections/" title="SES San Jose Corrections">SES San Jose Corrections</a> for more information, and a much different story than was originally posted here.</em>
</p></div>

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<p style="font-size: 90%; text-align: right; margin-top: 0.5em; padding-top: 0;">(If you care, there's even an <a href="/eric/thoughts/page/2/">archive of previous thoughts</a>...)</p>

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