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	<title>Comments on: When Browsers Attack!</title>
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	<link>http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2004/09/16/when-browsers-attack/</link>
	<description>Things that Eric A. Meyer, CSS expert, writes about on his personal Web site; it&#039;s largely Web standards and Web technology, but also various bits of culture, politics, personal observations, and other miscellaneous stuff</description>
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		<item>
		<title>By: Tetsuo</title>
		<link>http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2004/09/16/when-browsers-attack/#comment-434979</link>
		<dc:creator>Tetsuo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Jan 2009 12:17:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2004/09/16/when-browsers-attack/#comment-434979</guid>
		<description>Very odd. Here was what fixed it for me (seems everyone has different solutions though...) I had a containing element that was set to:

&quot;&lt;strong&gt;position:relative&lt;/strong&gt;&quot;

and I singled out that two elements within this container were causing the crash, and they both had &quot;float:right&quot; applied to them. By setting &quot;&lt;strong&gt;float:none&lt;/strong&gt;&quot; + &quot;&lt;strong&gt;display:block&lt;/strong&gt;&quot; to these in an IE6-specific stylesheet fixed the crash.

I&#039;m surprised this bug is over 4 years old, and it&#039;s such a &lt;strong&gt;catastrophic&lt;/strong&gt; one at that, you would expect to have at least been aware of it before... Never have I ever seen a CSS statement cause the rendering engine to crash the browser. Until this week. I suppose in retrospect, I shouldn&#039;t have been surprised - this &lt;em&gt;is&lt;/em&gt; Internet Explorer we&#039;re dealing with, after all.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Very odd. Here was what fixed it for me (seems everyone has different solutions though&#8230;) I had a containing element that was set to:</p>
<p>&#8220;<strong>position:relative</strong>&#8221;</p>
<p>and I singled out that two elements within this container were causing the crash, and they both had &#8220;float:right&#8221; applied to them. By setting &#8220;<strong>float:none</strong>&#8221; + &#8220;<strong>display:block</strong>&#8221; to these in an IE6-specific stylesheet fixed the crash.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m surprised this bug is over 4 years old, and it&#8217;s such a <strong>catastrophic</strong> one at that, you would expect to have at least been aware of it before&#8230; Never have I ever seen a CSS statement cause the rendering engine to crash the browser. Until this week. I suppose in retrospect, I shouldn&#8217;t have been surprised &#8211; this <em>is</em> Internet Explorer we&#8217;re dealing with, after all.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Charlie Vaughan</title>
		<link>http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2004/09/16/when-browsers-attack/#comment-434097</link>
		<dc:creator>Charlie Vaughan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 03 Jan 2009 00:03:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2004/09/16/when-browsers-attack/#comment-434097</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve just been having a similar problem with a div floated left. Setting it to display:inline, position:relative, display:block, float:right, changing element to a span, all failed.

In the end set it to &lt;strong&gt;clear:left&lt;/strong&gt; then &lt;strong&gt;clear:both&lt;/strong&gt; which both solved the problem! Obviously not much help to most people but in my case it was an exceptable solution.

Currently running XP SP3 on VMware Fusion, also found the problem in IETester which also uses the IE6 render engine.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve just been having a similar problem with a div floated left. Setting it to display:inline, position:relative, display:block, float:right, changing element to a span, all failed.</p>
<p>In the end set it to <strong>clear:left</strong> then <strong>clear:both</strong> which both solved the problem! Obviously not much help to most people but in my case it was an exceptable solution.</p>
<p>Currently running XP SP3 on VMware Fusion, also found the problem in IETester which also uses the IE6 render engine.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Het wil maar niet lukken &#171; Danny&#8217;s Informatica Weblog</title>
		<link>http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2004/09/16/when-browsers-attack/#comment-419695</link>
		<dc:creator>Het wil maar niet lukken &#171; Danny&#8217;s Informatica Weblog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Nov 2008 17:10:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2004/09/16/when-browsers-attack/#comment-419695</guid>
		<description>[...] Explore crashen. Het probleem schijnt vaker voor te komen en in de reacties op een blog post (appendix 4) zijn er wel oplossingen aan geboden maar geen van allen verholp het probleem van mijn [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Explore crashen. Het probleem schijnt vaker voor te komen en in de reacties op een blog post (appendix 4) zijn er wel oplossingen aan geboden maar geen van allen verholp het probleem van mijn [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: FireLike &#187; Blog Archive &#187; How CSS can crash Browser</title>
		<link>http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2004/09/16/when-browsers-attack/#comment-205093</link>
		<dc:creator>FireLike &#187; Blog Archive &#187; How CSS can crash Browser</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Jul 2007 07:38:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2004/09/16/when-browsers-attack/#comment-205093</guid>
		<description>[...] the day trying to fix a misterious crash problem with Internet Explorer 6. Finally I found this site with suggestions for a [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] the day trying to fix a misterious crash problem with Internet Explorer 6. Finally I found this site with suggestions for a [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Plamen</title>
		<link>http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2004/09/16/when-browsers-attack/#comment-205088</link>
		<dc:creator>Plamen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Jul 2007 07:24:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2004/09/16/when-browsers-attack/#comment-205088</guid>
		<description>I had the same problem: IE6 crashes because of the &lt;b&gt;float:left&lt;/b&gt;.
Tried janisto&#039;s suggestion (No 32) for &lt;b&gt;display: inline&lt;/b&gt; and it worked.
I needed the float:left because without it my div background did not appear in firefox.

div.hdr{
	width:100%; 
	display: inline;
	float:left;
	background-image:url(/images/background.gif);
	background-repeat: repeat-x;
}</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I had the same problem: IE6 crashes because of the <b>float:left</b>.<br />
Tried janisto&#8217;s suggestion (No 32) for <b>display: inline</b> and it worked.<br />
I needed the float:left because without it my div background did not appear in firefox.</p>
<p>div.hdr{<br />
	width:100%;<br />
	display: inline;<br />
	float:left;<br />
	background-image:url(/images/background.gif);<br />
	background-repeat: repeat-x;<br />
}</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Mag Leahy</title>
		<link>http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2004/09/16/when-browsers-attack/#comment-150499</link>
		<dc:creator>Mag Leahy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 May 2007 11:03:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2004/09/16/when-browsers-attack/#comment-150499</guid>
		<description>Hi all,

Had a similar IE problem. Narrowed it down to this CSS line:

#plants ul.goesWell a {display:block; float:left;}

The odd thing is I am trying to get a page into it&quot;s print view visual state so if I use print.css as the screen css: 

media=&quot;screen,projection&quot;

then all is fine, but when I go to Print Preview with this css:

media=&quot;print&quot;

it crashes the browser consistently each time.

As I skimmed through the comments, I saw #22 from James Davies and worked a treat, thanks James! The new line is:

#plants ul.goesWell a {display:block; float:left; &lt;b&gt;position:relative;&lt;/b&gt;}

IE: sigh!
Cheers everyone.
Mag</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi all,</p>
<p>Had a similar IE problem. Narrowed it down to this CSS line:</p>
<p>#plants ul.goesWell a {display:block; float:left;}</p>
<p>The odd thing is I am trying to get a page into it&#8221;s print view visual state so if I use print.css as the screen css: </p>
<p>media=&#8221;screen,projection&#8221;</p>
<p>then all is fine, but when I go to Print Preview with this css:</p>
<p>media=&#8221;print&#8221;</p>
<p>it crashes the browser consistently each time.</p>
<p>As I skimmed through the comments, I saw #22 from James Davies and worked a treat, thanks James! The new line is:</p>
<p>#plants ul.goesWell a {display:block; float:left; <b>position:relative;</b>}</p>
<p>IE: sigh!<br />
Cheers everyone.<br />
Mag</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Martin</title>
		<link>http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2004/09/16/when-browsers-attack/#comment-142731</link>
		<dc:creator>Martin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Apr 2007 14:46:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2004/09/16/when-browsers-attack/#comment-142731</guid>
		<description>Hey, glad to find this article. I just built a website with 3 pages of 31 crashing IE 6. All 3 pages use the same stylesheets (but different from the other 28 pages) with graphic buttons within &lt;li&gt; and &lt;ul&gt;. The list items were float: left; so i deleted that line and all went fine on 2 of the 3 pages. I didn&#039;t check the 3rd.

But now: I checked against it and inserted the float: left; back again. Restarted IE, cleard cache (and cookies), and the two pages i tested before are still running fine, but on the 3rd page, IE crashes.

Then I deleted that float: left;, reloaded the 3rd page, it works. Re-inserted float: left; and all pages work fine. Internet Explorer seems to have a mind besides its cache. I wonder where it might be.

What the ... is wrong here?

Greetings from Einbeck, Germany,
Martin</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey, glad to find this article. I just built a website with 3 pages of 31 crashing IE 6. All 3 pages use the same stylesheets (but different from the other 28 pages) with graphic buttons within &lt;li&gt; and &lt;ul&gt;. The list items were float: left; so i deleted that line and all went fine on 2 of the 3 pages. I didn&#8217;t check the 3rd.</p>
<p>But now: I checked against it and inserted the float: left; back again. Restarted IE, cleard cache (and cookies), and the two pages i tested before are still running fine, but on the 3rd page, IE crashes.</p>
<p>Then I deleted that float: left;, reloaded the 3rd page, it works. Re-inserted float: left; and all pages work fine. Internet Explorer seems to have a mind besides its cache. I wonder where it might be.</p>
<p>What the &#8230; is wrong here?</p>
<p>Greetings from Einbeck, Germany,<br />
Martin</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: redemption in a blog - Finally, Bezurk and news.com.au co-brand is up and running</title>
		<link>http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2004/09/16/when-browsers-attack/#comment-96585</link>
		<dc:creator>redemption in a blog - Finally, Bezurk and news.com.au co-brand is up and running</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 Feb 2007 17:01:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2004/09/16/when-browsers-attack/#comment-96585</guid>
		<description>[...] thanks to a CSS bug in IE6, we were delayed by a week. The last thing we expected was a CSS bug hanging IE6 but yeah, well, it [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] thanks to a CSS bug in IE6, we were delayed by a week. The last thing we expected was a CSS bug hanging IE6 but yeah, well, it [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Herb</title>
		<link>http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2004/09/16/when-browsers-attack/#comment-90905</link>
		<dc:creator>Herb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 Feb 2007 17:15:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2004/09/16/when-browsers-attack/#comment-90905</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m a novice HTML&#039;r and I&#039;ve been using CoffeeCup to put a site together. All of a sudden I my links started strange behavior when Previewing. I thought it was CoffeeCup, so I tried the site (local HD)in IE6 and it did the same thing. So I tried my Version1 site from 3 weeks earlier that worked fine then &amp; it did the same thing, just intermittently links would work and not work. I&#039;m on XP SP2 (upgraded from SP1 online about a month or two ago). The only change I can think of is I upgraded Microsoft Media Player to 11.0 a week ago. But what could that possibly have to do with it??</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m a novice HTML&#8217;r and I&#8217;ve been using CoffeeCup to put a site together. All of a sudden I my links started strange behavior when Previewing. I thought it was CoffeeCup, so I tried the site (local HD)in IE6 and it did the same thing. So I tried my Version1 site from 3 weeks earlier that worked fine then &amp; it did the same thing, just intermittently links would work and not work. I&#8217;m on XP SP2 (upgraded from SP1 online about a month or two ago). The only change I can think of is I upgraded Microsoft Media Player to 11.0 a week ago. But what could that possibly have to do with it??</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Geoff</title>
		<link>http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2004/09/16/when-browsers-attack/#comment-63205</link>
		<dc:creator>Geoff</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Oct 2006 14:20:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2004/09/16/when-browsers-attack/#comment-63205</guid>
		<description>I had a similar problem, it turned out that a class that was being applied to an anchor tag and contained the element &#039;width:100%&#039; was causing the crash.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I had a similar problem, it turned out that a class that was being applied to an anchor tag and contained the element &#8216;width:100%&#8217; was causing the crash.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Jörgen</title>
		<link>http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2004/09/16/when-browsers-attack/#comment-57451</link>
		<dc:creator>Jörgen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 30 Sep 2006 13:35:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2004/09/16/when-browsers-attack/#comment-57451</guid>
		<description>..had a similar problem..
the class

.test
{
width: 31.8em;
margin: 0 8.7em 0 2.4em;
float:left;
}

crashed the IE 6..
but after reading here we changed it to

.test
{
float:left;
display:inline;
width: 31.8em;
margin: 0 8.7em 0 2.4em;
}

and everything worked fine.. strange but nice..</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>..had a similar problem..<br />
the class</p>
<p>.test<br />
{<br />
width: 31.8em;<br />
margin: 0 8.7em 0 2.4em;<br />
float:left;<br />
}</p>
<p>crashed the IE 6..<br />
but after reading here we changed it to</p>
<p>.test<br />
{<br />
float:left;<br />
display:inline;<br />
width: 31.8em;<br />
margin: 0 8.7em 0 2.4em;<br />
}</p>
<p>and everything worked fine.. strange but nice..</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: satish</title>
		<link>http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2004/09/16/when-browsers-attack/#comment-52598</link>
		<dc:creator>satish</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Sep 2006 08:09:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2004/09/16/when-browsers-attack/#comment-52598</guid>
		<description>I had a similar problem. 
I suddenly started crashing. 
But it was after some months of using.

We solved the problem. We removed the float element from the CSS.
Then i was just checking for articles on CSS making IE crash n i came across this. This is a too good article. 

I tried to solve the problem and that process i literally crashed IE more than 100 times .
We solved the problem.
But i wondered why only with IE as MoZI didnt give the problem with same CSS? There is some problem with IE&#039;s rendering Engine as ur saying.

Thanks n regards 

satish Gaudo.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I had a similar problem.<br />
I suddenly started crashing.<br />
But it was after some months of using.</p>
<p>We solved the problem. We removed the float element from the CSS.<br />
Then i was just checking for articles on CSS making IE crash n i came across this. This is a too good article. </p>
<p>I tried to solve the problem and that process i literally crashed IE more than 100 times .<br />
We solved the problem.<br />
But i wondered why only with IE as MoZI didnt give the problem with same CSS? There is some problem with IE&#8217;s rendering Engine as ur saying.</p>
<p>Thanks n regards </p>
<p>satish Gaudo.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: maximus</title>
		<link>http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2004/09/16/when-browsers-attack/#comment-44415</link>
		<dc:creator>maximus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Aug 2006 11:35:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2004/09/16/when-browsers-attack/#comment-44415</guid>
		<description>whenever i open a hyperlink from the main page into a new window,
the &quot;parent&quot; IE window hangs if i close the &quot;child&quot; new window.
i have to terminate the parent IE window through task manager.
Any ideas guy y this happens. Is it a browser attack, or a bug in IE6.0 ? any remedies appreciated</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>whenever i open a hyperlink from the main page into a new window,<br />
the &#8220;parent&#8221; IE window hangs if i close the &#8220;child&#8221; new window.<br />
i have to terminate the parent IE window through task manager.<br />
Any ideas guy y this happens. Is it a browser attack, or a bug in IE6.0 ? any remedies appreciated</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Diana</title>
		<link>http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2004/09/16/when-browsers-attack/#comment-39195</link>
		<dc:creator>Diana</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Jul 2006 15:15:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2004/09/16/when-browsers-attack/#comment-39195</guid>
		<description>Very happy to find this. MS knowledgebase not helpful. This problem was affecting pages in IE6 that had divs with padding-left, but *only* on print and print-preview. I solved it by removing the padding for the elements in the print style sheet. Float:left was not a problem. I hope this information helps others.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Very happy to find this. MS knowledgebase not helpful. This problem was affecting pages in IE6 that had divs with padding-left, but *only* on print and print-preview. I solved it by removing the padding for the elements in the print style sheet. Float:left was not a problem. I hope this information helps others.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Troy</title>
		<link>http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2004/09/16/when-browsers-attack/#comment-20093</link>
		<dc:creator>Troy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Mar 2006 03:43:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2004/09/16/when-browsers-attack/#comment-20093</guid>
		<description>Just ran into a similar problem. A component on a page was set to float:left, and any number of these components could appear. The intended result was that these components (with declared width and height) would sit in rows of four, and drop onto a new &quot;line&quot; if more were added. It works great in Firefox (go figure). In IE it works fine too, when just a few of these components are being displayed. When we had 16 displayed, IE would load the page, but then freeze up the moment we tried to scroll down (with more than half of the components already showing &quot;above the fold&quot;). 

I think the bug is only loosely related to the one you&#039;ve experienced, but it was still a new one on me.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just ran into a similar problem. A component on a page was set to float:left, and any number of these components could appear. The intended result was that these components (with declared width and height) would sit in rows of four, and drop onto a new &#8220;line&#8221; if more were added. It works great in Firefox (go figure). In IE it works fine too, when just a few of these components are being displayed. When we had 16 displayed, IE would load the page, but then freeze up the moment we tried to scroll down (with more than half of the components already showing &#8220;above the fold&#8221;). </p>
<p>I think the bug is only loosely related to the one you&#8217;ve experienced, but it was still a new one on me.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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<div class="entry">
<h3><a href="http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2004/09/16/when-browsers-attack/" rel="bookmark" title="Permanent Link: When Browsers Attack!">When Browsers Attack!</a></h3>
<ul class="meta">
<li class="date">Thu 16 Sep 2004</li>
<li class="time">1537</li>
<li class="cat"><a href="http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/category/tech/browsers/" title="View all posts in Browsers" rel="category tag">Browsers</a><br> <a href="http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/category/tech/css/" title="View all posts in CSS" rel="category tag">CSS</a></li>
<li class="cmt"><a href="http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2004/09/16/when-browsers-attack/#comments">52 responses</a></li>
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<div class="text">
<p>
Remember my <a href="/eric/thoughts/2004/09/14/scenes-from-an-ichat-window/" title="Scenes From An iChat Window">recently posted conversation</a> with <a href="http://www.molly.com/" rel="friend colleague met" title="Molly">Molly</a>?  Boy, am I ever feelin&#8217; that today.  In <em>spades</em>.
</p>
<p>
Some of you have noticed earlier today that things were presentationally unstable.  Depending on when you dropped by, you would have seen raw document presentation with no author styles at all, or some chunks of the site&#8217;s usual styles but not others, or all of the usual styles with a few oddities thrown on top for good measure.  For a few hours, during which I had to attend to something else, the site was fine except that in IE/Win, the main content column was quite a bit wider than usual, and some bits of content were visually exceeding the edges of the design box.  All that was happening because I was turning styles on and off in an attempt to stop freezing Internet Explorer for Windows.
</p>
<p>
Freezing?  Oh, yes.  As in locking it up so that people had to use the Task Manager to force-quit the process.  There were probably a few reboots out there as well; there were at least a couple here in Casa de Meyer.  Ordinarily, I&#8217;d apologize.  Not this time.  If you want an apology, try finding the person or persons responsible for IE&#8217;s CSS handling, and demand an apology from them.  I&#8217;m not taking the rap for this.
</p>
<p>
To set the stage, let me back up a couple of days.  As I passed by Kat&#8217;s office, she called out, &#8220;Hey, how come my browser keeps getting screwed up?&#8221;
</p>
<p>
&#8220;Because it&#8217;s Explorer,&#8221; I said.  &#8220;Next question?&#8221;
</p>
<p>
&#8220;Ha ha.  Seriously, every time I try to view your &#8216;<a href="http://www.meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2004/09/14/ten-things-to-do-in-cleveland-before-youre-dead/" title="Ten Things To Do In Cleveland Before You're Dead">ten things to do in Cleveland</a>&#8216; post, the computer crashes.  I think there&#8217;s something wrong with it.&#8221;
</p>
<p>
Grumbling, I wandered over to her computer.  Sure enough, the browser was completely frozen.  She&#8217;d already called up the Task Manager and was forcing the browser to quit.  She said it was the third time she&#8217;d had to do it.  As I watched, the screen went blank, then drew the desktop color and stopped.  The cursor appeared as an hourglass, and refused to change or even move.
</p>
<p>
Once the system had gone through a hard reboot, I fired up Netscape 7 and loaded up meyerweb.  I surfed around to various posts.  No problems at all.  I then launched IE and loaded up the home page.  No problem.  I went to the offending post.  Instant freeze.
</p>
<p>
After a few more invocations of the Fatal Freeze, I wandered out of her office again, muttering about Explorer and Windows and pondering the possibility that her computer had been infected with some kind of virus, malware, or other nastiness.  But then, the next day, I got some e-mail reporting similar problems.  Then Ian Firth <a href="http://www.meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2004/09/15/emreallyem-undoing-htmlcss/#comment-895">managed to get a comment in</a> about the problem on the post &#8220;<a href="http://www.meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2004/09/15/emreallyem-undoing-htmlcss/" title="Really Undoing html.css"><em>Really</em> Undoing html.css</a>&#8220;, even though others were getting the Fatal Freeze on that very post.  And he mentioned that it was happening in both IE and <a href="http://www.feeddemon.com/feeddemon/">FeedDemon</a>&mdash;which meant it was something in IE&#8217;s rendering engine, since FeedDemon just wraps itself around the engine.  A <a href="http://www.bradsoft.com/forums/shwmessage.aspx?forumid=1&amp;messageid=4474#bm4480">similar report</a> cropped up in the FeedDemon forums this morning, where it was mentioned that a similar problem had already been seen in the post &#8220;<a href="http://www.meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2004/09/13/standards-savings/" title="Standards Savings">Standards Savings</a>&#8220;.  (Not that anybody had actually bothered to tell <em>me</em>, but hey, whatever.)
</p>
<p>
So I fired up VirtualPC this morning and tested the problem for myself.  And sure enough, I was very quickly the latest resident of Lockup City.  So I started narrowing down the cause.  I&#8217;ll spare you all the nasty details (and foul language) of my bug hunt, and cut to the chase: the lockup was happening on entry pages where the post content included an element that used left padding.  Blockquotes and lists were the prime triggers.  There wasn&#8217;t an absolute 100% guarantee of trouble, but it was close.  I could avoid the freeze by commenting out a single declaration in my main style sheet:
</p>
<pre>
#main {
  margin: 0 15em 0 0;
  /* padding: 3em 4em 3em 4em; */
  border-right: 1px solid #AAA;
  background: #FFF;
  min-height: 30em;
}
</pre>
<p>
That&#8217;s why the content was running rampant earlier today.  I had to leave that line commented out for a few hours.  But I knew that couldn&#8217;t be the <em>real</em> cause, because it didn&#8217;t cause freezes on the home page, or even on monthly or daily archive pages.  The freeze only happened on an individual entry page where there was a padding-indented element inside the content column.  Thus, the source was most likely to lie in style sheet that&#8217;s applied only to post pages.
</p>
<p>
So I started digging through my entry style sheet until I narrowed the problem down to this line:
</p>
<pre>
.prev-next {margin: 0; padding: 0.25em 1% 0; 
  float: left; width: 98%;}
</pre>
<p>
If I commented it out, and uncommented the padding declaration from before, there were no problems.  So the culprit lay somewhere in the <code>.prev-next</code> rule.  Anyone want to guess at the cause?  Go ahead.
</p>
<p>
Oh, all right, I&#8217;ll tell you.  It was <code>float: left;</code>.  As soon as I removed that declaration, the IE6 freezing problem just melted away.  So if you&#8217;ve encountered freezes while trying to view entry pages in the past, you shouldn&#8217;t any more.  (If you do, please comment on this entry with the exact browser and OS you&#8217;re using.)
</p>
<p>
The original point of the <code>float</code> statement was to get the unordered list to wrap around the floated list items within it, since floated elements wrap around floated descendants (for more details, see my article &#8220;<a href="http://www.complexspiral.com/publications/containing-floats/" title="Containing Floats">Containing Floats</a>&#8220;).  Since that was apparently a recipe for disaster, I modified the rule to read:
</p>
<pre>
.prev-next {margin: 0; padding: 0.25em 1% 0; 
  width: 98%; height: 1em;}
</pre>
<p>
It isn&#8217;t exactly the same as what I was doing before, but the result is close enough for now.
</p>
<p>
What else might I have done?  Well, in all honesty, I thought seriously about leaving things status quo and letting IE users go hang.  I don&#8217;t cater to potential crash bugs in NN4, for example; why should I make an exception for another browser?  But as I always knew I would, I grumbled a bit and then made an accommodation for IE.  I may one day restore the float for more modern browsers and use some sort of hack to hide it from IE/Win, but for now I&#8217;ll leave things be.
</p>
<p>
What&#8217;s odd to me is that the styles involved in triggering this problem have been in place literally for months.  If this was a problem, it should have arisen before now.  Yet the first I heard of this freeze bug was two days ago, and then all of a sudden I was hearing about it from multiple sources.  If I&#8217;d been updating my CSS, that would be understandable, but I wasn&#8217;t.  So what happened?  Did the installed Explorer population just get spontaneously and collectively buggier over the weekend, or what?  Is there a subtle worm running around adding bugs to IE&#8217;s rendering engine?  I&#8217;m really at a loss here.
</p>
<p>
As to why that particular combination of styles would cause IE to freeze up, I&#8217;m <em>completely</em> at a loss.  Not a clue in the world.
</p>
<p>
While I was mucking around in the CSS anyway, I decided to see if I could fix the rendering error in IE/Win that made the sidebar hang out over the vertical separator.  I did, so far as I can tell.  The problem there was the &#8220;Exploration&#8221; box and the styles I&#8217;d applied to it.  Apparently, if you set a <code>form</code> element to <code>width: 95%; margin-left 5%;</code> and then set a text input within that form to <code>width: 100%;</code>, it all adds up to something like 120%, or something.  So I did a little bit of a hack to hide the <code>input</code> element&#8217;s width value from IE/Win.  The input box won&#8217;t be as wide for IE/Win users, but as far as I&#8217;m concerned that&#8217;s an acceptable loss.
</p>
<p>
I hope your morning was substantially less frustrating than mine.
</p></div>

</div>

</div>
<p style="font-size: 90%; text-align: right; margin-top: 0.5em; padding-top: 0;">(If you care, there's even an <a href="/eric/thoughts/page/2/">archive of previous thoughts</a>...)</p>

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