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	<title>Comments on: Apple Intel</title>
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	<link>http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2005/06/08/apple-intel/</link>
	<description>Things that Eric A. Meyer, CSS expert, writes about on his personal Web site; it&#039;s largely Web standards and Web technology, but also various bits of culture, politics, personal observations, and other miscellaneous stuff</description>
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		<title>By: David Streever</title>
		<link>http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2005/06/08/apple-intel/#comment-5838</link>
		<dc:creator>David Streever</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Jul 2005 14:43:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2005/06/09/apple-intel/#comment-5838</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Do you guys even use windows? ;-)

it&#039;s easy and fun to claim they run poorly and crash. I work with 3 machines--a pc notebook, a pc desktop, and an apple desktop.

My desktop and notebook run windows XP pro. They network easily &amp; quickly, never crash, and definetly outperform the G4 running OSX, which frequently suffers from application crashes. (My &quot;Mail&quot; program crashes every other day)

I&#039;m not going to say one is better than the other...but I might be careful of bashing one or the other :D.

I personally prefer my pc, because even though having worked with macs for sometime, I think my mac functions much slower due to the keyboard combinations. I don&#039;t ever have to touch my pc mouse, and my pc keyboard shortcuts are easy to use. On my mac most of the combos seem to involve pressing 3 or 4 buttons that are side by side with one hand...]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Do you guys even use windows? ;-)</p>
<p>it&#8217;s easy and fun to claim they run poorly and crash. I work with 3 machines&#8211;a pc notebook, a pc desktop, and an apple desktop.</p>
<p>My desktop and notebook run windows XP pro. They network easily &amp; quickly, never crash, and definetly outperform the G4 running OSX, which frequently suffers from application crashes. (My &#8220;Mail&#8221; program crashes every other day)</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not going to say one is better than the other&#8230;but I might be careful of bashing one or the other :D.</p>
<p>I personally prefer my pc, because even though having worked with macs for sometime, I think my mac functions much slower due to the keyboard combinations. I don&#8217;t ever have to touch my pc mouse, and my pc keyboard shortcuts are easy to use. On my mac most of the combos seem to involve pressing 3 or 4 buttons that are side by side with one hand&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: David M.</title>
		<link>http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2005/06/08/apple-intel/#comment-5734</link>
		<dc:creator>David M.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Jun 2005 11:24:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2005/06/09/apple-intel/#comment-5734</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Yes, I can&#039;t envision an &#039;intel inside&#039; sticker on my powerbook - unless it&#039;s a pretty glowing one next to the apple on the lid.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, I can&#8217;t envision an &#8216;intel inside&#8217; sticker on my powerbook &#8211; unless it&#8217;s a pretty glowing one next to the apple on the lid.</p>
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		<title>By: Jason G</title>
		<link>http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2005/06/08/apple-intel/#comment-5728</link>
		<dc:creator>Jason G</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Jun 2005 15:53:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2005/06/09/apple-intel/#comment-5728</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I am hard pressed to see Steve Jobs inking any sort of deal that puts a visible Intel sticker on those nice cases. And if Intel wanted the deal as bad as they let on, they may have let that point go...

Just as I am hard pressed to see Steve Jobs let the machines boot into BIOS. So in those respects, to the average user I don&#039;t think there will be anything visibly different.

To the person who likes to dig in a little deeper like myself, well, we will just have to adjust to the fact that there is no PowerPC chip inside and we will have plain ol&#039; x86.

Like Eric says, ultimatly it shouldn&#039;t matter as long as it is running OS X... but it is just one less thing that makes the Mac platform different. Not necessarily better, not necessarily worse, but always different. It shouldn&#039;t bother me, I doubt I have ever done anything where I could have said &quot;Boy am I glad I did this on a PowerPC chip instead of x86!&quot;. But, yet, on some level it does bother me.

As for OS X running on commodity PC hardware... will it happen? Yes. Will it run well? Probably not.

Reason: Apple only has to keep current (or any) drivers for a limited  amount of hardware. So, depending on what motherboard chipset they use, and other hardware like video cards etc, OS X may or may not run on just any old PC.

If Apple goes all Intel on the motherboard then sure maybe some PCs out there will run OS X with a minor amount of hacking to get it to boot. But I doubt if it will ever run as stable as it does on the hardware Apple provides.

The same works the other way if Apple designs a custom motherboard. Running Windows XP on Apple&#039;s hardware, while feasible, it may run poorly and be crash prone... [jab]wait how is that any different?[/jab]

My $0.02.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am hard pressed to see Steve Jobs inking any sort of deal that puts a visible Intel sticker on those nice cases. And if Intel wanted the deal as bad as they let on, they may have let that point go&#8230;</p>
<p>Just as I am hard pressed to see Steve Jobs let the machines boot into BIOS. So in those respects, to the average user I don&#8217;t think there will be anything visibly different.</p>
<p>To the person who likes to dig in a little deeper like myself, well, we will just have to adjust to the fact that there is no PowerPC chip inside and we will have plain ol&#8217; x86.</p>
<p>Like Eric says, ultimatly it shouldn&#8217;t matter as long as it is running OS X&#8230; but it is just one less thing that makes the Mac platform different. Not necessarily better, not necessarily worse, but always different. It shouldn&#8217;t bother me, I doubt I have ever done anything where I could have said &#8220;Boy am I glad I did this on a PowerPC chip instead of x86!&#8221;. But, yet, on some level it does bother me.</p>
<p>As for OS X running on commodity PC hardware&#8230; will it happen? Yes. Will it run well? Probably not.</p>
<p>Reason: Apple only has to keep current (or any) drivers for a limited  amount of hardware. So, depending on what motherboard chipset they use, and other hardware like video cards etc, OS X may or may not run on just any old PC.</p>
<p>If Apple goes all Intel on the motherboard then sure maybe some PCs out there will run OS X with a minor amount of hacking to get it to boot. But I doubt if it will ever run as stable as it does on the hardware Apple provides.</p>
<p>The same works the other way if Apple designs a custom motherboard. Running Windows XP on Apple&#8217;s hardware, while feasible, it may run poorly and be crash prone&#8230; [jab]wait how is that any different?[/jab]</p>
<p>My $0.02.</p>
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		<title>By: Damien</title>
		<link>http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2005/06/08/apple-intel/#comment-5727</link>
		<dc:creator>Damien</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Jun 2005 15:21:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2005/06/09/apple-intel/#comment-5727</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Regarding sales of systems with Linux preinstalled, most Linux users seem to either build their own or buy a Windows-based machine and install Linux over that.  As a result its difficult to really compare numbers for that.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Regarding sales of systems with Linux preinstalled, most Linux users seem to either build their own or buy a Windows-based machine and install Linux over that.  As a result its difficult to really compare numbers for that.</p>
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		<title>By: milkfilk</title>
		<link>http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2005/06/08/apple-intel/#comment-5725</link>
		<dc:creator>milkfilk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Jun 2005 04:38:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2005/06/09/apple-intel/#comment-5725</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The chip is just the chip.  Isaac is right, the OS is the hard part.  IE: There are fewer Linux games even though my Intel gaming box boots Linux and Windows.  The OS is the problem.

I was shocked too.  1) I thought G5&#039;s were awesome, anandtech.com released some bechmarks right before this that proved otherwise.  2) I thought IBM would push the G5 on the desktop with the Xbox 360 using the G5.  3) I thought heat was a problem on x86, not G5.

But now the shock is over.  What I see as some huge advantages of this deal:
- Virtual PC won&#039;t have to do h/w translations.  It&#039;ll run real nice.
- Hopefully macs will be cheaper.
- Hopefully macs will run faster and cooler.  My G4 powerbook is a dog.
- Maybe game developers will think about macs more.

Gaming and price are the two big negatives about Apple, I hope this helps.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The chip is just the chip.  Isaac is right, the OS is the hard part.  IE: There are fewer Linux games even though my Intel gaming box boots Linux and Windows.  The OS is the problem.</p>
<p>I was shocked too.  1) I thought G5&#8242;s were awesome, anandtech.com released some bechmarks right before this that proved otherwise.  2) I thought IBM would push the G5 on the desktop with the Xbox 360 using the G5.  3) I thought heat was a problem on x86, not G5.</p>
<p>But now the shock is over.  What I see as some huge advantages of this deal:<br />
- Virtual PC won&#8217;t have to do h/w translations.  It&#8217;ll run real nice.<br />
- Hopefully macs will be cheaper.<br />
- Hopefully macs will run faster and cooler.  My G4 powerbook is a dog.<br />
- Maybe game developers will think about macs more.</p>
<p>Gaming and price are the two big negatives about Apple, I hope this helps.</p>
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		<title>By: Keith Burgin</title>
		<link>http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2005/06/08/apple-intel/#comment-5724</link>
		<dc:creator>Keith Burgin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Jun 2005 21:46:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2005/06/09/apple-intel/#comment-5724</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I guess what bothers me about this whole thing is based upon emotions as well.  I just switched to Mac.  After many years of driving a Honda, I just switched to the Harley of desktops.

Now, they want to make parts interchangeable in an effort to make the Harley more popular in the market.  

You know, call me a new snob, but I could care less if the OS can be put on a PC.  I want my Mac - I&#039;ve already fallen in love with it - and let those who would rather run Mac OSX step to the plate, baby...]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I guess what bothers me about this whole thing is based upon emotions as well.  I just switched to Mac.  After many years of driving a Honda, I just switched to the Harley of desktops.</p>
<p>Now, they want to make parts interchangeable in an effort to make the Harley more popular in the market.  </p>
<p>You know, call me a new snob, but I could care less if the OS can be put on a PC.  I want my Mac &#8211; I&#8217;ve already fallen in love with it &#8211; and let those who would rather run Mac OSX step to the plate, baby&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Isaac Lin</title>
		<link>http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2005/06/08/apple-intel/#comment-5720</link>
		<dc:creator>Isaac Lin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Jun 2005 03:01:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2005/06/09/apple-intel/#comment-5720</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Having MacOS and Windows on the same processor helps portability only in one specific way: Intel processors lay out data types larger than a byte in &quot;little-endian&quot; format, and PowerPC for MacOS lays out data types larger than a byte in &quot;big-endian&quot; format. This affects code that manipulates data structures at a byte level, typically for binary file formats or protocols or data processing (e.g. image manipulation). Except perhaps for number-crunching applications, this is generally not the majority of the application code. The operating system APIs are very different between Windows and MacOS, which is the primary barrier to porting applications from one platform to another.

(It will probably be easier to get a Windows emulation environment running under MacOS on an Intel processor, but if I understood you correctly, I believe you were referring to native ports of applications from one OS to another.)
]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Having MacOS and Windows on the same processor helps portability only in one specific way: Intel processors lay out data types larger than a byte in &#8220;little-endian&#8221; format, and PowerPC for MacOS lays out data types larger than a byte in &#8220;big-endian&#8221; format. This affects code that manipulates data structures at a byte level, typically for binary file formats or protocols or data processing (e.g. image manipulation). Except perhaps for number-crunching applications, this is generally not the majority of the application code. The operating system APIs are very different between Windows and MacOS, which is the primary barrier to porting applications from one platform to another.</p>
<p>(It will probably be easier to get a Windows emulation environment running under MacOS on an Intel processor, but if I understood you correctly, I believe you were referring to native ports of applications from one OS to another.)</p>
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		<title>By: Amanda Kissire</title>
		<link>http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2005/06/08/apple-intel/#comment-5716</link>
		<dc:creator>Amanda Kissire</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Jun 2005 19:49:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2005/06/09/apple-intel/#comment-5716</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[You could peel off the Intel &#039;badge&#039;.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You could peel off the Intel &#8216;badge&#8217;.</p>
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		<title>By: Eric Meyer</title>
		<link>http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2005/06/08/apple-intel/#comment-5715</link>
		<dc:creator>Eric Meyer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Jun 2005 18:28:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2005/06/09/apple-intel/#comment-5715</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I&#039;ve read of official statements both ways, some saying &quot;no way&quot; and some saying &quot;absolutely&quot;.  In both cases I&#039;ve only read reports of said statements, not the statements themselves.

But no matter what Apple says or tries to do, third parties will figure out a way to let Windows run on Apple hardware, and OS X run on non-Apple PCs.  That&#039;s already happened with programs like VirtualPC and PearPC.  Having both operating systems on the same chip architecture will make the job of tearing down the wall that much simpler.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve read of official statements both ways, some saying &#8220;no way&#8221; and some saying &#8220;absolutely&#8221;.  In both cases I&#8217;ve only read reports of said statements, not the statements themselves.</p>
<p>But no matter what Apple says or tries to do, third parties will figure out a way to let Windows run on Apple hardware, and OS X run on non-Apple PCs.  That&#8217;s already happened with programs like VirtualPC and PearPC.  Having both operating systems on the same chip architecture will make the job of tearing down the wall that much simpler.</p>
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		<title>By: Jed</title>
		<link>http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2005/06/08/apple-intel/#comment-5714</link>
		<dc:creator>Jed</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Jun 2005 18:14:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2005/06/09/apple-intel/#comment-5714</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;this potentially brings the ability to run OS X to the ninety-plus percent of the computing world that has an Intel machine..&quot;

&quot;Potentially&quot; is the big word here, as apple will not allow this to happen (I believe that have officially stated that somewhere).

What *could* happen is being able to boot windows (and linux obviously) onto the new mac machines.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;this potentially brings the ability to run OS X to the ninety-plus percent of the computing world that has an Intel machine..&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8220;Potentially&#8221; is the big word here, as apple will not allow this to happen (I believe that have officially stated that somewhere).</p>
<p>What *could* happen is being able to boot windows (and linux obviously) onto the new mac machines.</p>
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