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	<title>Comments on: Parent Processes</title>
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	<link>http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2005/09/28/parent-processes/</link>
	<description>Things that Eric A. Meyer, CSS expert, writes about on his personal Web site; it&#039;s largely Web standards and Web technology, but also various bits of culture, politics, personal observations, and other miscellaneous stuff</description>
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		<title>By: Lemi4 aka. fERDI:)</title>
		<link>http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2005/09/28/parent-processes/#comment-7384</link>
		<dc:creator>Lemi4 aka. fERDI:)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 16 Oct 2005 07:33:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2005/09/24/666/#comment-7384</guid>
		<description>Umm... I don&#039;t know, but I think I saw this movie once; it was made in the sixties...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Umm&#8230; I don&#8217;t know, but I think I saw this movie once; it was made in the sixties&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Derek Pennycuff</title>
		<link>http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2005/09/28/parent-processes/#comment-7330</link>
		<dc:creator>Derek Pennycuff</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Oct 2005 00:49:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2005/09/24/666/#comment-7330</guid>
		<description>i lean more towards the qualfying to be a parent extreme than the free kids for everyone extreme.  but i think education is a much better cure for our social ills than beurocracy.  call me an idealist.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>i lean more towards the qualfying to be a parent extreme than the free kids for everyone extreme.  but i think education is a much better cure for our social ills than beurocracy.  call me an idealist.</p>
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		<title>By: Robert</title>
		<link>http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2005/09/28/parent-processes/#comment-7291</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Oct 2005 21:16:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2005/09/24/666/#comment-7291</guid>
		<description>If the government serves any role in setting up the adoption, wouldn&#039;t they have a &lt;b&gt;duty&lt;/b&gt; (not a right, note the difference) to make sure the person(s) adopting were qualified to take the child?

The matter of defining what constitutes &quot;qualified&quot; is why we have the mess we do.  </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If the government serves any role in setting up the adoption, wouldn&#8217;t they have a <b>duty</b> (not a right, note the difference) to make sure the person(s) adopting were qualified to take the child?</p>
<p>The matter of defining what constitutes &#8220;qualified&#8221; is why we have the mess we do.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: beth</title>
		<link>http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2005/09/28/parent-processes/#comment-7271</link>
		<dc:creator>beth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Oct 2005 05:37:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2005/09/24/666/#comment-7271</guid>
		<description>My long ago training in biology makes me concerned along the lines of Jeff - fertility treatments that introduce the possibility of passing on genes that wouldn&#039;t normally be passed on. And then having to care for the people who result from this.

As a parent - I know that nobody is truly prepared for the job... I have 3 adult children and I vivdly remember leaving the hospital with my oldest and thinking &quot;Are they CRAZY! They are letting me take this child home!&quot;

And as a child, I also know that even children who grow up in homes where at least one parent is a disaster [read practicing alcoholic] can turn out pretty good.

As far as forced contraception goes - that&#039;s scary for all of the reasons mentioned by other commentors before me. But also because is goes against our very nature. All living things are driven at some level to procreate - otherwise, the species dies out. 

And, as a person and a Christian, I also have learned that humans aren&#039;t always the best judge of how a person will turn out.As a whole, we&#039;re just not qualified. We don&#039;t see the big picture and we are way to enthralled with money.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My long ago training in biology makes me concerned along the lines of Jeff &#8211; fertility treatments that introduce the possibility of passing on genes that wouldn&#8217;t normally be passed on. And then having to care for the people who result from this.</p>
<p>As a parent &#8211; I know that nobody is truly prepared for the job&#8230; I have 3 adult children and I vivdly remember leaving the hospital with my oldest and thinking &#8220;Are they CRAZY! They are letting me take this child home!&#8221;</p>
<p>And as a child, I also know that even children who grow up in homes where at least one parent is a disaster [read practicing alcoholic] can turn out pretty good.</p>
<p>As far as forced contraception goes &#8211; that&#8217;s scary for all of the reasons mentioned by other commentors before me. But also because is goes against our very nature. All living things are driven at some level to procreate &#8211; otherwise, the species dies out. </p>
<p>And, as a person and a Christian, I also have learned that humans aren&#8217;t always the best judge of how a person will turn out.As a whole, we&#8217;re just not qualified. We don&#8217;t see the big picture and we are way to enthralled with money.</p>
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		<title>By: Kate N.</title>
		<link>http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2005/09/28/parent-processes/#comment-7249</link>
		<dc:creator>Kate N.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 09 Oct 2005 00:54:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2005/09/24/666/#comment-7249</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve enjoyed reading everyone&#039;s views and opinions, particularly in light of the fact that the issue up for discussion is such a volatile one. As a parent and a Paramedic, I&#039;ve seen, and dealt with, all manner of humankind, some so profoundly cruel they would make even the most harden life form run the other way. 

I&#039;ve seen families, generation upon generation, struggling to stay alive in unadulterated filth and squalor - of which isn&#039;t, for the most part, entirely their own fault. Money has a vicious bite to it and the perpetual lack of it more so.  I&#039;ve seen wealth in the most ostentatious forms and the tangible detachment, emptiness that seemingly cripples those who attempt to reside – survive – in this wondrous shiny environment and unquestionably fail. 

The lack of wealth isn&quot;t the catchall to this issue. The adoption policies as they stand – in my own country at least – are based, I believe, on the traditional and archaic views of those who were once “Social Reformers”.  The idealistic assumption that “money” is the ultimate – indeed, the only – factor in safe guarding a child&quot;s life is ridiculous as it is absurd. 

Wealth doesn&quot;t automatically propagate better parents – it just promotes more choices in life. Likewise, the assumption that those of lesser means are innately bad, awful and abusive is preposterous, as too the hypothesis that wealthier families are infinitely caring, loving and considerate. 

While I agree for the most part that a person&quot;s “age” is generally systemic in the ability to rear children properly, I don&quot;t agree that one&quot;s age should be deemed essential criteria when it comes to the rights of reproduction and nurturing children.

I&quot;ve seen many underage parents – 12, 13 &amp; 14 year olds - care for their children with far greater emphasis on love, cleanliness and protection than a fifty year old financial broker whose primary motivation in life is crawling out of bed was so he can score another hit.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve enjoyed reading everyone&#8217;s views and opinions, particularly in light of the fact that the issue up for discussion is such a volatile one. As a parent and a Paramedic, I&#8217;ve seen, and dealt with, all manner of humankind, some so profoundly cruel they would make even the most harden life form run the other way. </p>
<p>I&#8217;ve seen families, generation upon generation, struggling to stay alive in unadulterated filth and squalor &#8211; of which isn&#8217;t, for the most part, entirely their own fault. Money has a vicious bite to it and the perpetual lack of it more so.  I&#8217;ve seen wealth in the most ostentatious forms and the tangible detachment, emptiness that seemingly cripples those who attempt to reside – survive – in this wondrous shiny environment and unquestionably fail. </p>
<p>The lack of wealth isn&#8221;t the catchall to this issue. The adoption policies as they stand – in my own country at least – are based, I believe, on the traditional and archaic views of those who were once “Social Reformers”.  The idealistic assumption that “money” is the ultimate – indeed, the only – factor in safe guarding a child&#8221;s life is ridiculous as it is absurd. </p>
<p>Wealth doesn&#8221;t automatically propagate better parents – it just promotes more choices in life. Likewise, the assumption that those of lesser means are innately bad, awful and abusive is preposterous, as too the hypothesis that wealthier families are infinitely caring, loving and considerate. </p>
<p>While I agree for the most part that a person&#8221;s “age” is generally systemic in the ability to rear children properly, I don&#8221;t agree that one&#8221;s age should be deemed essential criteria when it comes to the rights of reproduction and nurturing children.</p>
<p>I&#8221;ve seen many underage parents – 12, 13 &amp; 14 year olds &#8211; care for their children with far greater emphasis on love, cleanliness and protection than a fifty year old financial broker whose primary motivation in life is crawling out of bed was so he can score another hit.</p>
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		<title>By: Laurens Holst</title>
		<link>http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2005/09/28/parent-processes/#comment-7235</link>
		<dc:creator>Laurens Holst</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Oct 2005 12:33:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2005/09/24/666/#comment-7235</guid>
		<description>Suppose that those background investigations which seem desirable included the sexuality of the adoption parents, and finds homosexuality sufficient reason to deny any adoption request. What would you say?

Oh wait, that&quot;s what happening now.


~Grauw</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Suppose that those background investigations which seem desirable included the sexuality of the adoption parents, and finds homosexuality sufficient reason to deny any adoption request. What would you say?</p>
<p>Oh wait, that&#8221;s what happening now.</p>
<p>~Grauw</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Faris</title>
		<link>http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2005/09/28/parent-processes/#comment-7196</link>
		<dc:creator>Faris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Oct 2005 02:53:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2005/09/24/666/#comment-7196</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m serious, what is that some kind of Zeldman ripoff? It&#039;s hideous, and not worthy of your skill. I don&#039;t like Zeldman&#039;s fav-icon either, he hasn&#039;t looked like a Grunge for 15 years at least, don&#039;t degrade yourself by doing a lame imitation of a farce.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m serious, what is that some kind of Zeldman ripoff? It&#8217;s hideous, and not worthy of your skill. I don&#8217;t like Zeldman&#8217;s fav-icon either, he hasn&#8217;t looked like a Grunge for 15 years at least, don&#8217;t degrade yourself by doing a lame imitation of a farce.</p>
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		<title>By: beentheredonethat</title>
		<link>http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2005/09/28/parent-processes/#comment-7170</link>
		<dc:creator>beentheredonethat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Oct 2005 09:22:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2005/09/24/666/#comment-7170</guid>
		<description>
First off, in the U.S., anyway, private adoption is very different from state adoption.  If you&#039;ve got enough money, you can basically bypass all the backgrounding ... the more money, the more bypassing. And yep, most of that money goes to attorneys.

In contrast, you can&#039;t buy your way through a state adoption.  HOWEVER, and not a lot of people know this, if you adopt a kid through the foster care (state) system, the state will pay you a stipend every month until the kid reaches majority. How much of a stipend depends on you and the kid.  Title IV-E funds.  Federal.  All states participate.  Some states also guarantee free college tuition to children adopted through foster care, presuming they ever become college material, and damn few do.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>First off, in the U.S., anyway, private adoption is very different from state adoption.  If you&#8217;ve got enough money, you can basically bypass all the backgrounding &#8230; the more money, the more bypassing. And yep, most of that money goes to attorneys.</p>
<p>In contrast, you can&#8217;t buy your way through a state adoption.  HOWEVER, and not a lot of people know this, if you adopt a kid through the foster care (state) system, the state will pay you a stipend every month until the kid reaches majority. How much of a stipend depends on you and the kid.  Title IV-E funds.  Federal.  All states participate.  Some states also guarantee free college tuition to children adopted through foster care, presuming they ever become college material, and damn few do.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael C.</title>
		<link>http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2005/09/28/parent-processes/#comment-7168</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael C.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Oct 2005 08:18:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2005/09/24/666/#comment-7168</guid>
		<description>IMHO, the job of training potential parents to be good parents lies not with the government or federal something-or-another, but with &lt;em&gt;that&lt;/em&gt; person&#039;s parents, when &lt;em&gt;that&lt;/em&gt; person was being brought up. Why would anyone think that training for &lt;strong&gt;life&lt;/strong&gt; (as opposed to training for a job position, i.e. school education) should be placed into the hands of anyone except the parents? Yes, there are &quot;good&quot; parents and there are &quot;bad&quot; parents. But there is also a pattern of children seeing everything their parents did wrong, and vowing to do those things right by their own children. Granted, there are always the exceptions (which we hear about the most, for obvious reasons) where &quot;bad&quot; parentage seems to twist and corrupt a person, causing them to rebel against whoever and whatever they can. But those &lt;em&gt;are&lt;/em&gt; exceptions, not rules.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>IMHO, the job of training potential parents to be good parents lies not with the government or federal something-or-another, but with <em>that</em> person&#8217;s parents, when <em>that</em> person was being brought up. Why would anyone think that training for <strong>life</strong> (as opposed to training for a job position, i.e. school education) should be placed into the hands of anyone except the parents? Yes, there are &#8220;good&#8221; parents and there are &#8220;bad&#8221; parents. But there is also a pattern of children seeing everything their parents did wrong, and vowing to do those things right by their own children. Granted, there are always the exceptions (which we hear about the most, for obvious reasons) where &#8220;bad&#8221; parentage seems to twist and corrupt a person, causing them to rebel against whoever and whatever they can. But those <em>are</em> exceptions, not rules.</p>
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		<title>By: Faris</title>
		<link>http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2005/09/28/parent-processes/#comment-7130</link>
		<dc:creator>Faris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Oct 2005 13:54:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2005/09/24/666/#comment-7130</guid>
		<description>I&#039;d say your icon&#039;s ugly.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;d say your icon&#8217;s ugly.</p>
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		<title>By: john allsopp</title>
		<link>http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2005/09/28/parent-processes/#comment-7101</link>
		<dc:creator>john allsopp</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Oct 2005 01:16:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2005/09/24/666/#comment-7101</guid>
		<description>Eric,

its happened

http://www.boingboing.net/2005/10/04/bizarre_proposed_ind.html

john</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Eric,</p>
<p>its happened</p>
<p><a href="http://www.boingboing.net/2005/10/04/bizarre_proposed_ind.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.boingboing.net/2005/10/04/bizarre_proposed_ind.html</a></p>
<p>john</p>
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		<title>By: Dean Edwards</title>
		<link>http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2005/09/28/parent-processes/#comment-7083</link>
		<dc:creator>Dean Edwards</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Oct 2005 18:51:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2005/09/24/666/#comment-7083</guid>
		<description>O brave new world...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>O brave new world&#8230;</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: grumpY!</title>
		<link>http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2005/09/28/parent-processes/#comment-6975</link>
		<dc:creator>grumpY!</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Sep 2005 22:19:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2005/09/24/666/#comment-6975</guid>
		<description>reads like 1984, literally a nightmare scenario. look at past history of govt eugenics projects to see the logical conclsuion to these policies. the day the govt start issuing childbirth licenses, they will also have to start performing forced sterilizations. is this a world you want to live in?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>reads like 1984, literally a nightmare scenario. look at past history of govt eugenics projects to see the logical conclsuion to these policies. the day the govt start issuing childbirth licenses, they will also have to start performing forced sterilizations. is this a world you want to live in?</p>
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		<title>By: Passerby</title>
		<link>http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2005/09/28/parent-processes/#comment-6971</link>
		<dc:creator>Passerby</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Sep 2005 20:20:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2005/09/24/666/#comment-6971</guid>
		<description>The thing I find most interesting about this post is how blinded some people are to your thought experiment.  It took 19 comments for someone to figure out/mention that you are really talking about the current methods of having/getting/raising kids but reversed.

Well, I know what you&#039;re talking about.  I am a 2 time adoptive parent. All the gov&#039;t red tape is worth it in the end, and you&#039;ll always know you worked and suffered for something that your nextdoor neighbor may have done without thinking at all.

Push through it toward the goal.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The thing I find most interesting about this post is how blinded some people are to your thought experiment.  It took 19 comments for someone to figure out/mention that you are really talking about the current methods of having/getting/raising kids but reversed.</p>
<p>Well, I know what you&#8217;re talking about.  I am a 2 time adoptive parent. All the gov&#8217;t red tape is worth it in the end, and you&#8217;ll always know you worked and suffered for something that your nextdoor neighbor may have done without thinking at all.</p>
<p>Push through it toward the goal.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Sean O'Brien</title>
		<link>http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2005/09/28/parent-processes/#comment-6964</link>
		<dc:creator>Sean O'Brien</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Sep 2005 17:17:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2005/09/24/666/#comment-6964</guid>
		<description>Interesting questions. The most importand job anyone can have - raising a child, is considered a &quot;Human Right&quot; by many, but we have to get a license to drive a car, build a house, or do a number of other things, all of which are nearly meaningless when compared to raising a child.

The benefits mandatory contraception, licensing and oversight in child-rearing are something society could benefit greatly from. This is true not just from a social standpoint, but from an environmental standpoint as well. Our rapidly expanding population is the main factor in problems like global warming and the exhaustion of the world&#039;s resources. 

However,there is a problem:

Who makes the rules? Who decides how safe a parent&#039;s house is? The way our society works now, the rich make the rules, often to the detriment of the average citizen. If we lived in a truly democratic society, and those rules could be arrived at by consensus, with the common good in mind, perhaps such a policy would be feasable. Of course that would depend on common people making rational decisions, which clearly doesn&#039;t happen very often, at least in the political sphere (Bush elected to a second term???)

Anyway, these are complicated questions, with no easy anwers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting questions. The most importand job anyone can have &#8211; raising a child, is considered a &#8220;Human Right&#8221; by many, but we have to get a license to drive a car, build a house, or do a number of other things, all of which are nearly meaningless when compared to raising a child.</p>
<p>The benefits mandatory contraception, licensing and oversight in child-rearing are something society could benefit greatly from. This is true not just from a social standpoint, but from an environmental standpoint as well. Our rapidly expanding population is the main factor in problems like global warming and the exhaustion of the world&#8217;s resources. </p>
<p>However,there is a problem:</p>
<p>Who makes the rules? Who decides how safe a parent&#8217;s house is? The way our society works now, the rich make the rules, often to the detriment of the average citizen. If we lived in a truly democratic society, and those rules could be arrived at by consensus, with the common good in mind, perhaps such a policy would be feasable. Of course that would depend on common people making rational decisions, which clearly doesn&#8217;t happen very often, at least in the political sphere (Bush elected to a second term???)</p>
<p>Anyway, these are complicated questions, with no easy anwers.</p>
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<h3><a href="http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2005/09/28/parent-processes/" rel="bookmark" title="Permanent Link: Parent Processes">Parent Processes</a></h3>
<ul class="meta">
<li class="date">Wed 28 Sep 2005</li>
<li class="time">0838</li>
<li class="cat"><a href="http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/category/personal/" title="View all posts in Personal" rel="category tag">Personal</a></li>
<li class="cmt"><a href="http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2005/09/28/parent-processes/#comments">50 responses</a></li>
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<p>
Suppose I said that all people of a child-bearing age should be given mandatory contraceptives, and that they only be allowed to reproduce once they had completed a rigorous financial, criminal, intelligence, safety, and social screening process.  That the screening could result in mandated changes to the house, such as wiring upgrades, regardless of the cost those changes might incur.  That without submitting to interviews with a social worker, without completing an exhaustive application process, without becoming certified in infant/child CPR, without all of the preceding&#8212;nobody would be permitted to forgo the contraceptives and become a parent.  And suppose I said that <em>after</em> the child&#8217;s birth, a social worker would visit the new family for at least half a year&#8212;and if during that time the worker became concerned in any way for the child&#8217;s safety, or was sufficiently worried about the general conditions in the home, the worker could have the child taken away and assigned to another family.
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What would you say?
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<p>
Suppose I said that the process of adopting a child should be radically simplified, to the point that anyone giving up a child for adoption would just anonymously hand the child over to an agency, and that anyone who wanted a child would simply come into the agency and anonymously pick one up.  That there would be no more background investigations, no mandated education, no screening of any kind, no followup checks, no need for large amounts of money, no waiting&#8212;no barriers to becoming an adoptive parent save the initiative to go to the agency and walk out a parent.  That a child would simply be handed out to anyone who merely asked for one, no matter how unprepared or unqualified or unfit they might be for the job of parenting.
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What would you say?
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<p style="font-size: 90%; text-align: right; margin-top: 0.5em; padding-top: 0;">(If you care, there's even an <a href="/eric/thoughts/page/2/">archive of previous thoughts</a>...)</p>

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