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	<title>Comments on: Linking Up</title>
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	<link>http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2008/06/12/linking-up/</link>
	<description>Things that Eric A. Meyer, CSS expert, writes about on his personal Web site; it&#039;s largely Web standards and Web technology, but also various bits of culture, politics, personal observations, and other miscellaneous stuff</description>
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		<item>
		<title>By: HTML 5 und die Möglichkeit, jedes Element zu verlinken</title>
		<link>http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2008/06/12/linking-up/#comment-407656</link>
		<dc:creator>HTML 5 und die Möglichkeit, jedes Element zu verlinken</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Sep 2008 14:07:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://meyerweb.com/?p=914#comment-407656</guid>
		<description>[...] Listen &lt;ol&gt; und bei Definitionslisten &lt;dl&gt;. Diese Fragen und noch andere hat sich Eric Meyer auch schon gestellt. Vor wenigen Tagen hat Eric Meyer eine kleine Demo unter dem Einsatz von Javascript, das HTML 5 [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Listen &lt;ol&gt; und bei Definitionslisten &lt;dl&gt;. Diese Fragen und noch andere hat sich Eric Meyer auch schon gestellt. Vor wenigen Tagen hat Eric Meyer eine kleine Demo unter dem Einsatz von Javascript, das HTML 5 [...]</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: HTML 5 und die Möglichkeit, jedes Element zu verlinken</title>
		<link>http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2008/06/12/linking-up/#comment-404503</link>
		<dc:creator>HTML 5 und die Möglichkeit, jedes Element zu verlinken</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 30 Aug 2008 08:28:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://meyerweb.com/?p=914#comment-404503</guid>
		<description>[...] &lt;ol&gt; und bei Definitionslisten &lt;dl&gt;. Diese Fragen und noch andere hat sich Eric Meyer auch schon gestellt. Vor wenigen Tagen hat Eric Meyer eine kleine Demo unter dem Einsatz von Javascript, das HTML 5 [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] &lt;ol&gt; und bei Definitionslisten &lt;dl&gt;. Diese Fragen und noch andere hat sich Eric Meyer auch schon gestellt. Vor wenigen Tagen hat Eric Meyer eine kleine Demo unter dem Einsatz von Javascript, das HTML 5 [...]</p>
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	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Rexibit Web Services</title>
		<link>http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2008/06/12/linking-up/#comment-394681</link>
		<dc:creator>Rexibit Web Services</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Jul 2008 15:22:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://meyerweb.com/?p=914#comment-394681</guid>
		<description>You make some good points about list elements. The question is more of, where do you draw conformity?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You make some good points about list elements. The question is more of, where do you draw conformity?</p>
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	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Ro</title>
		<link>http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2008/06/12/linking-up/#comment-391125</link>
		<dc:creator>Ro</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Jul 2008 16:41:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://meyerweb.com/?p=914#comment-391125</guid>
		<description>Another good rationale for granting TH elements the href property is column sorting. Could reduce and simplify JS required for implementing that type of functionality.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Another good rationale for granting TH elements the href property is column sorting. Could reduce and simplify JS required for implementing that type of functionality.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Seamus</title>
		<link>http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2008/06/12/linking-up/#comment-391080</link>
		<dc:creator>Seamus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Jul 2008 12:00:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://meyerweb.com/?p=914#comment-391080</guid>
		<description>A case where you might want to link a PRE is when it contains a poem where the format is important (for example the text make the shape of an arrow). If you have an index of poems where the first few lines of each is shown, then you would put them in a PRE and link it to the full poem.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A case where you might want to link a PRE is when it contains a poem where the format is important (for example the text make the shape of an arrow). If you have an index of poems where the first few lines of each is shown, then you would put them in a PRE and link it to the full poem.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Stevie D</title>
		<link>http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2008/06/12/linking-up/#comment-389040</link>
		<dc:creator>Stevie D</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Jul 2008 12:34:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://meyerweb.com/?p=914#comment-389040</guid>
		<description>If we&#039;re going down this route, I would like to see &lt;code&gt;href&lt;/code&gt; attributes for &lt;code&gt;dt&lt;/code&gt; and &lt;code&gt;dd&lt;/code&gt; elements. Examples - you could have the &lt;code&gt;dt&lt;/code&gt; link to an audio file to give the pronunciation - you could have pages about each term defined and want to link to them from the &lt;code&gt;dt&lt;/code&gt; - seconding Wolfgang&#039;s &lt;a href=&quot;http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2008/06/12/linking-up/#comment-384740&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;comment 18&lt;/a&gt; where you would link from the &lt;code&gt;dd&lt;/code&gt; where it references name-value pairs.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If we&#8217;re going down this route, I would like to see <code>href</code> attributes for <code>dt</code> and <code>dd</code> elements. Examples &#8211; you could have the <code>dt</code> link to an audio file to give the pronunciation &#8211; you could have pages about each term defined and want to link to them from the <code>dt</code> &#8211; seconding Wolfgang&#8217;s <a href="http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2008/06/12/linking-up/#comment-384740" rel="nofollow">comment 18</a> where you would link from the <code>dd</code> where it references name-value pairs.</p>
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	</item>
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		<title>By: Links for 2008-06-25 - tonyscott.org.uk</title>
		<link>http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2008/06/12/linking-up/#comment-387347</link>
		<dc:creator>Links for 2008-06-25 - tonyscott.org.uk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Jun 2008 09:51:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://meyerweb.com/?p=914#comment-387347</guid>
		<description>[...] HTML5: Linking up [Eric Meyer] [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] HTML5: Linking up [Eric Meyer] [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Chris Cox</title>
		<link>http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2008/06/12/linking-up/#comment-386075</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Cox</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Jun 2008 11:11:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://meyerweb.com/?p=914#comment-386075</guid>
		<description>Hi.

I apologise for the off-topic comment, but you&#039;ve closed comments on the next one and I just wanted to say as a long-term reader, father of one and expecting another, congratulations on Version 2.1

ALso, are you aware that the excuse generated that day was &quot;The breakup of the American family&quot;? Gave me a giggle.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi.</p>
<p>I apologise for the off-topic comment, but you&#8217;ve closed comments on the next one and I just wanted to say as a long-term reader, father of one and expecting another, congratulations on Version 2.1</p>
<p>ALso, are you aware that the excuse generated that day was &#8220;The breakup of the American family&#8221;? Gave me a giggle.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Mike</title>
		<link>http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2008/06/12/linking-up/#comment-385889</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Jun 2008 15:40:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://meyerweb.com/?p=914#comment-385889</guid>
		<description>If I&#039;m not mistaken the &quot;href everywhere&quot; concept will be included in XHTML 2.0. For me that is a big argument for XHTML 2.0 &lt;b&gt;over&lt;/b&gt; HTML 5 (as it currently stands and as I currently understand them).  I won&#039;t pretend to understand either format entirely as I was only exposed to HTML 5 &amp; XHTML 2.0 yesterday or maybe the day before as web design is only a small portion of my job responsibilities. I&#039;m not trying to start a comparison (or flame) war over the two specs, just stating that I really like the concept (then there does not appear to be much difference between the nav tag and the nl tag either). 

I think XHTML 2.0 also has &quot;src everywhere&quot; or something to that affect that seems like a nice attribute. Again IMHO being not completely up to speed on either or both specs.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If I&#8217;m not mistaken the &#8220;href everywhere&#8221; concept will be included in XHTML 2.0. For me that is a big argument for XHTML 2.0 <b>over</b> HTML 5 (as it currently stands and as I currently understand them).  I won&#8217;t pretend to understand either format entirely as I was only exposed to HTML 5 &amp; XHTML 2.0 yesterday or maybe the day before as web design is only a small portion of my job responsibilities. I&#8217;m not trying to start a comparison (or flame) war over the two specs, just stating that I really like the concept (then there does not appear to be much difference between the nav tag and the nl tag either). </p>
<p>I think XHTML 2.0 also has &#8220;src everywhere&#8221; or something to that affect that seems like a nice attribute. Again IMHO being not completely up to speed on either or both specs.</p>
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	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Eric Meyer</title>
		<link>http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2008/06/12/linking-up/#comment-385188</link>
		<dc:creator>Eric Meyer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Jun 2008 15:42:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://meyerweb.com/?p=914#comment-385188</guid>
		<description>&lt;a href=&quot;http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2008/06/12/linking-up/#comment-384569&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Brian&lt;/a&gt;: sorry about that; Akismet was apparently being more hyper than usual, as there were a couple of other comments by people other than you that suffered the same fate right around the same time.  I did eventually see your e-mail and fished out the comments, so at least the &quot;you&#039;ve been spam-canned&quot; warning plugin did its job.  (Before I asked for help creating that plugin, there was no notice at all that one had been canned!)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2008/06/12/linking-up/#comment-384569" rel="nofollow">Brian</a>: sorry about that; Akismet was apparently being more hyper than usual, as there were a couple of other comments by people other than you that suffered the same fate right around the same time.  I did eventually see your e-mail and fished out the comments, so at least the &#8220;you&#8217;ve been spam-canned&#8221; warning plugin did its job.  (Before I asked for help creating that plugin, there was no notice at all that one had been canned!)</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Wolfgang Löer</title>
		<link>http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2008/06/12/linking-up/#comment-384744</link>
		<dc:creator>Wolfgang Löer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Jun 2008 16:37:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://meyerweb.com/?p=914#comment-384744</guid>
		<description>actually, according to &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/#the-dl&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;the draft&lt;/a&gt;, 

&lt;code&gt;dt&lt;/code&gt; and corresponding &lt;code&gt;dd&lt;/code&gt; in a &lt;code&gt;dl&lt;/code&gt; are simply
&lt;blockquote&gt;Name-value groups&lt;/blockquote&gt; and  
&lt;blockquote&gt;may be terms and definitions, metadata topics and values, or any other groups of name-value data.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
and not strictly definitions. seen that way, even the proposed menu seems valid.

when &lt;code&gt;dt&lt;/code&gt; and &lt;code&gt;dl&lt;/code&gt; sit in a &lt;code&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/#the-dialog&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;dialog&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/code&gt;, even more use-cases come to mind, like linking to sound-files or again linking to personal pages (&lt;strong&gt;this is a dt use-case!&lt;/strong&gt;).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>actually, according to <a href="http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/#the-dl" rel="nofollow">the draft</a>, </p>
<p><code>dt</code> and corresponding <code>dd</code> in a <code>dl</code> are simply</p>
<blockquote><p>Name-value groups</p></blockquote>
<p> and  </p>
<blockquote><p>may be terms and definitions, metadata topics and values, or any other groups of name-value data.</p></blockquote>
<p>and not strictly definitions. seen that way, even the proposed menu seems valid.</p>
<p>when <code>dt</code> and <code>dl</code> sit in a <code><a href="http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/#the-dialog" rel="nofollow">dialog</a></code>, even more use-cases come to mind, like linking to sound-files or again linking to personal pages (<strong>this is a dt use-case!</strong>).</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Wolfgang Löer</title>
		<link>http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2008/06/12/linking-up/#comment-384740</link>
		<dc:creator>Wolfgang Löer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Jun 2008 16:15:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://meyerweb.com/?p=914#comment-384740</guid>
		<description>here is a better use-case for dd, directly from the&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/#the-dl&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt; whatwg-draft&lt;/a&gt; (scroll down a bit):

&lt;blockquote cite=&quot;http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/#the-dl&quot;&gt;&lt;dl&gt;
   &lt;dt&gt; Authors
   &lt;dd&gt; John
   &lt;dd&gt; Luke
   &lt;dt&gt; Editor
   &lt;dd&gt; Frank
&lt;/dl&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;

one might want to link to the personal pages of those individuals.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>here is a better use-case for dd, directly from the<a href="http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/#the-dl" rel="nofollow"> whatwg-draft</a> (scroll down a bit):</p>
<blockquote cite="http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/#the-dl"><p>&lt;dl&gt;<br />
   &lt;dt&gt; Authors<br />
   &lt;dd&gt; John<br />
   &lt;dd&gt; Luke<br />
   &lt;dt&gt; Editor<br />
   &lt;dd&gt; Frank<br />
&lt;/dl&gt;</p></blockquote>
<p>one might want to link to the personal pages of those individuals.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Wolfgang Löer</title>
		<link>http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2008/06/12/linking-up/#comment-384737</link>
		<dc:creator>Wolfgang Löer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Jun 2008 16:02:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://meyerweb.com/?p=914#comment-384737</guid>
		<description>You are right, Hein, that example was probably not the best.

But does this invalidate my question? 

is &lt;code&gt;dl&lt;/code&gt; only correct in cases, where &lt;code&gt;dd&lt;/code&gt; is THE definite definition of &lt;code&gt;dt&lt;/code&gt; so that it can&#039;t be desireable to link to further sources, references, backstories or whatever? would&#039;t that be very limiting? do such definitions even exist?

and why would then several &lt;code&gt;dd&lt;/code&gt; to one &lt;code&gt;dt&lt;/code&gt; be allowed?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You are right, Hein, that example was probably not the best.</p>
<p>But does this invalidate my question? </p>
<p>is <code>dl</code> only correct in cases, where <code>dd</code> is THE definite definition of <code>dt</code> so that it can&#8217;t be desireable to link to further sources, references, backstories or whatever? would&#8217;t that be very limiting? do such definitions even exist?</p>
<p>and why would then several <code>dd</code> to one <code>dt</code> be allowed?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Brian LePore</title>
		<link>http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2008/06/12/linking-up/#comment-384570</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian LePore</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Jun 2008 14:19:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://meyerweb.com/?p=914#comment-384570</guid>
		<description>Eric, I&#039;ve lost two comments due to the filter. What am I doing wrong?

Could the preview button maybe one one if a comment will be marked as spam or not?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Eric, I&#8217;ve lost two comments due to the filter. What am I doing wrong?</p>
<p>Could the preview button maybe one one if a comment will be marked as spam or not?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Brian LePore</title>
		<link>http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2008/06/12/linking-up/#comment-384569</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian LePore</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Jun 2008 14:18:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://meyerweb.com/?p=914#comment-384569</guid>
		<description>What the heck. My post just explained a use case explaining how there can  be multiple t-body * elements and it got marked as spam? It didn&#039;t have any HTML elements in it, nor linked to anything, nor contained any common spam phrases. What&#039;s the deal?

* hoping to avoid the filter!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What the heck. My post just explained a use case explaining how there can  be multiple t-body * elements and it got marked as spam? It didn&#8217;t have any HTML elements in it, nor linked to anything, nor contained any common spam phrases. What&#8217;s the deal?</p>
<p>* hoping to avoid the filter!</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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<h3><a href="http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2008/06/12/linking-up/" rel="bookmark" title="Permanent Link: Linking Up">Linking Up</a></h3>
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<div class="text">
<p>
The <a href="http://meyerweb.com/eric/html-xhtml/html5-linking.html">&#8220;<code>href</code> everywhere&#8221; document</a> (which is officially titled &#8220;HTML5: More Flexibile Linking&#8221;) has been updated, so kindly give it another look and challenge my assertions, use cases (or lack thereof), and any weak points.  Unless you consider the whole idea of extending linkability to be a weak point, in which case, never mind.  You may or may not be right, but attacking the whole premise isn&#8217;t going to get much traction.  I&#8217;m convinced the general idea is a good one.  Now it&#8217;s up to me to make the best case for it and convince implementors that I&#8217;m right.
</p>
<p>
Thanks to comments on <a href="http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2008/06/05/strengthening-links/">the previous post in the series</a>, a few elements were added to the list of those which have plausible use cases, and I added some documentation of the elements that either aren&#8217;t on the list or don&#8217;t need to be on it at the end.  Eventually, the &#8220;Possible Additions&#8221; section will disappear entirely, and at that point I&#8217;ll be ready to submit it for consideration to the Working Group.
</p>
<p>
There are a few outstanding questions raised by commenters on the previous post:
</p>

<ol>
<li>
<p>Is there a reasonable case for linking any of <code>ul</code>, <code>ol</code>, or <code>dl</code>?  In cases where they represent quotations of other documents, they&#8217;re be wrapped in a <code>blockquote</code> anyway, and I&#8217;ve already got a use case for that one.  Linking <code>li</code> makes sense, but the whole list?  There are also questions about <code>dd</code>&#8212;would it make sense to allow linking to the paired <code>dd</code>?&#8212;but I don&#8217;t see a use case for <code>dd</code>.  The whole point there is it&#8217;s supposed to be the definition, not a shortened reference to a longer definition.
</p>
</li>
<li>
<p>I was persuaded of the utility of linking <code>video</code>, my previous uncertainty having been based in a misunderstanding of how click-this-video worked now, but what about <code>audio</code>?  I haven&#8217;t noticed it being common to link embedded audio clips to other sources, but maybe I&#8217;m missing something.</p>
</li>
<li>
<p>Can a table have multiple <code>thead</code>, <code>tbody</code>, or <code>tfoot</code> elements?  If so, linking them starts to make more sense.  I only wish I could find the part of the HTML5 draft that answers this one way or the other. In a like vein, I can&#8217;t decide if it makes more sense to add linking to <code>caption</code> or <code>table</code>.  I&#8217;m kind of tending toward the former.  Anyone have good arguments either way?</p>
</li>
<li>
<p>Should <code>embed</code> and <code>object</code> have direct linking, or is that better handled with already-extant markup patterns?  (If so, using <code>param</code>, I would imagine.)</p>
</li>
<li>
<p>Is there a reason to link a whole <code>pre</code> to some other resource, <em>other than</em> linking part of a program to a codebase?  Because in those cases, I&#8217;d probably use the <code>&lt;pre&gt;&lt;code&gt;...&lt;/code&gt;&lt;/pre&gt;</code> pattern, and link the <code>code</code> element.  <code>pre</code> is a presentational element, really, and you&#8217;ll note that I haven&#8217;t proposed adding linking to just about any of the presentation elements, <code>sup</code> and <code>sub</code> being the exceptions.</p>
</li>
<li>
<p>There&#8217;s a list of &#8220;(Possibly) Unsuitable Elements&#8221; near the end of the document that might bear some review in case I&#8217;m missing some obvious use cases.  Obvious to someone other than me, I mean.</p>
</li>
</ol>

<p>
Let me know what you think!  I&#8217;m definitely moving forward with this, as I&#8217;ve received encouragement from a member of the HTML WG,  but I&#8217;d like the proposal to be as solid as possible before I do so.  Thanks for everyone&#8217;s help!
</p>

</div>

</div>

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<p style="font-size: 90%; text-align: right; margin-top: 0.5em; padding-top: 0;">(If you care, there's even an <a href="/eric/thoughts/page/2/">archive of previous thoughts</a>...)</p>

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<li><a href="http://www.macosxhints.com/article.php?story=20100117064356428" title="February 8 | Storing this for future use.">Take a picture with the iSight camera when a folder is opened</a></li>
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<li><a href="http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2010/jan/25/carolyn-maloney/congresswoman-says-democratic-presidents-create-mo/" title="January 26 | &#8220;Obviously, luck matters a lot, but when there is a consistent pattern over more than 60 years, it starts to look like more than just luck.&#8221;">Congresswoman says Democratic presidents create more private-sector jobs</a></li>
<li><a href="http://www.ted.com/talks/taylor_mali_what_teachers_make.html" title="January 25 | Truth.">Taylor Mali: What teachers make</a></li>
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