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	<title>Comments on: Findings of the A List Apart Survey 2008</title>
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	<link>http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2009/04/07/findings-of-the-a-list-apart-survey-2008/</link>
	<description>Things that Eric A. Meyer, CSS expert, writes about on his personal Web site; it&#039;s largely Web standards and Web technology, but also various bits of culture, politics, personal observations, and other miscellaneous stuff</description>
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		<title>By: Findings from the A List Apart Survey, 2008 &#124; Renata Fros, Web Designer</title>
		<link>http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2009/04/07/findings-of-the-a-list-apart-survey-2008/#comment-507498</link>
		<dc:creator>Findings from the A List Apart Survey, 2008 &#124; Renata Fros, Web Designer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Aug 2010 15:20:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://meyerweb.com/?p=1099#comment-507498</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] Eric Meyer did a really phenomenal job of laying this out HTML/CSS-wise (obviously). It&#8217;s always a treat [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Eric Meyer did a really phenomenal job of laying this out HTML/CSS-wise (obviously). It&rsquo;s always a treat [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: T.J. Crowder</title>
		<link>http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2009/04/07/findings-of-the-a-list-apart-survey-2008/#comment-466970</link>
		<dc:creator>T.J. Crowder</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Jun 2009 12:02:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://meyerweb.com/?p=1099#comment-466970</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[It looks like the link at the outset of this article isn&#039;t working anymore, I get the (quite amusing) 404 page from ALA.

I think this is it:
http://aneventapart.com/alasurvey2008/

&lt;small&gt;[The link is working again---it&#039;s supposed to point to the article announcing the results. -E.]&lt;/small&gt;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It looks like the link at the outset of this article isn&#8217;t working anymore, I get the (quite amusing) 404 page from ALA.</p>
<p>I think this is it:<br />
<a href="http://aneventapart.com/alasurvey2008/" rel="nofollow">http://aneventapart.com/alasurvey2008/</a></p>
<p><small>[The link is working again---it's supposed to point to the article announcing the results. -E.]</small></p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Sean K. Stewart</title>
		<link>http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2009/04/07/findings-of-the-a-list-apart-survey-2008/#comment-460258</link>
		<dc:creator>Sean K. Stewart</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 May 2009 20:42:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://meyerweb.com/?p=1099#comment-460258</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Awesome work Eric... there&#039;s only thing that I am hung up on. Can you explain your methodology behind the div styles within charts.css? Specifically, lines 45-56, 71, &amp; 85 (as mentioned in comments #13 &amp; #14).

I&#039;m having difficulty figuring out what the width percentages are accomplishing.

Thanks again for your great CSS work!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Awesome work Eric&#8230; there&#8217;s only thing that I am hung up on. Can you explain your methodology behind the div styles within charts.css? Specifically, lines 45-56, 71, &amp; 85 (as mentioned in comments #13 &amp; #14).</p>
<p>I&#8217;m having difficulty figuring out what the width percentages are accomplishing.</p>
<p>Thanks again for your great CSS work!</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Kevin Dougherty</title>
		<link>http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2009/04/07/findings-of-the-a-list-apart-survey-2008/#comment-460246</link>
		<dc:creator>Kevin Dougherty</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 May 2009 18:38:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://meyerweb.com/?p=1099#comment-460246</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Eric, for the Totals columns in the Survey graphs, whereby you considered :last but went with cell-classing (and which you discussed the personal dilemma in AEA&#039;s Day II talk)...  Could you have used col tags instead, styling the final col as needed?  I&#039;m unsure of the browser support for this across the spectrum (and I&#039;m being lazy by not testing myself), but it seems a viable option, and the tradeoff of multiple td classes with &quot;last&quot; for a single set of col&#039;s with the final col classed for styling seems to be a potential improvement.  Thoughts?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Eric, for the Totals columns in the Survey graphs, whereby you considered :last but went with cell-classing (and which you discussed the personal dilemma in AEA&#8217;s Day II talk)&#8230;  Could you have used col tags instead, styling the final col as needed?  I&#8217;m unsure of the browser support for this across the spectrum (and I&#8217;m being lazy by not testing myself), but it seems a viable option, and the tradeoff of multiple td classes with &#8220;last&#8221; for a single set of col&#8217;s with the final col classed for styling seems to be a potential improvement.  Thoughts?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Eric Meyer</title>
		<link>http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2009/04/07/findings-of-the-a-list-apart-survey-2008/#comment-455575</link>
		<dc:creator>Eric Meyer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Apr 2009 01:53:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://meyerweb.com/?p=1099#comment-455575</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;a href=&quot;http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2009/04/07/findings-of-the-a-list-apart-survey-2008/#comment-455464&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;James&lt;/a&gt;, I did that because I didn&#039;t want to strongly emphasize the figure numbers, and also because in a non-CSS environment the headings would already be boldfaced, so using &lt;code&gt;b&lt;/code&gt; changed nothing.  Basically, since all I needed was a non-semantic element on which to hang some presentation, I used a non-semantic presentational element.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2009/04/07/findings-of-the-a-list-apart-survey-2008/#comment-455464" rel="nofollow">James</a>, I did that because I didn&#8217;t want to strongly emphasize the figure numbers, and also because in a non-CSS environment the headings would already be boldfaced, so using <code>b</code> changed nothing.  Basically, since all I needed was a non-semantic element on which to hang some presentation, I used a non-semantic presentational element.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: bowerbird</title>
		<link>http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2009/04/07/findings-of-the-a-list-apart-survey-2008/#comment-455560</link>
		<dc:creator>bowerbird</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Apr 2009 23:52:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://meyerweb.com/?p=1099#comment-455560</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[eric-

well, you are to be congratulated heartily
for eating your own dogfood, as well as
for being honest about how bad it tastes.

hopefully it shows how far you have to go,
especially since you needed to reach ahead
to html5 just to accomplish what you wanted.

i, for one, won&#039;t pay much attention to you
standardistas until you can convince even
the unsophisticated among us how _easy_
it is to create ordinary stuff like these charts,
not how _hard_ it is, or what kinds of hoops
we need to jump through for all the browsers.

which, i would hazard a guess, means that i
won&#039;t be paying any attention any time soon.

but surely you must be glad that you no longer
have to eat that .pdf, along with your integrity.

no matter how much work that might have took,
i&#039;d guess that that alone was well worth it to you.

i repeat, congratulations on a job well done...

-bowerbird]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>eric-</p>
<p>well, you are to be congratulated heartily<br />
for eating your own dogfood, as well as<br />
for being honest about how bad it tastes.</p>
<p>hopefully it shows how far you have to go,<br />
especially since you needed to reach ahead<br />
to html5 just to accomplish what you wanted.</p>
<p>i, for one, won&#8217;t pay much attention to you<br />
standardistas until you can convince even<br />
the unsophisticated among us how _easy_<br />
it is to create ordinary stuff like these charts,<br />
not how _hard_ it is, or what kinds of hoops<br />
we need to jump through for all the browsers.</p>
<p>which, i would hazard a guess, means that i<br />
won&#8217;t be paying any attention any time soon.</p>
<p>but surely you must be glad that you no longer<br />
have to eat that .pdf, along with your integrity.</p>
<p>no matter how much work that might have took,<br />
i&#8217;d guess that that alone was well worth it to you.</p>
<p>i repeat, congratulations on a job well done&#8230;</p>
<p>-bowerbird</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: James Green</title>
		<link>http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2009/04/07/findings-of-the-a-list-apart-survey-2008/#comment-455464</link>
		<dc:creator>James Green</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Apr 2009 12:26:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://meyerweb.com/?p=1099#comment-455464</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Curious why you used b tags instead of strong within the h3&#039;s?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Curious why you used b tags instead of strong within the h3&#8242;s?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Safely Ignored &#187; Progressive Charts</title>
		<link>http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2009/04/07/findings-of-the-a-list-apart-survey-2008/#comment-455416</link>
		<dc:creator>Safely Ignored &#187; Progressive Charts</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Apr 2009 06:15:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://meyerweb.com/?p=1099#comment-455416</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] has. Now Eric Meyer (who helped popularize the slant technique) brought it to mind again with his CSS bar charts (granted, without resorting to [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] has. Now Eric Meyer (who helped popularize the slant technique) brought it to mind again with his CSS bar charts (granted, without resorting to [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Weekly Links #48 &#124; GrantPalin.com</title>
		<link>http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2009/04/07/findings-of-the-a-list-apart-survey-2008/#comment-455387</link>
		<dc:creator>Weekly Links #48 &#124; GrantPalin.com</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Apr 2009 00:47:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://meyerweb.com/?p=1099#comment-455387</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] Findings from the A LIST APART Survey, 2008 The results of the annual web developer survey. Comments from Eric Meyer. [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Findings from the A LIST APART Survey, 2008 The results of the annual web developer survey. Comments from Eric Meyer. [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: A List Apart Survey 2008: i risultati &#124; Edit - Il blog di HTML.it</title>
		<link>http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2009/04/07/findings-of-the-a-list-apart-survey-2008/#comment-454590</link>
		<dc:creator>A List Apart Survey 2008: i risultati &#124; Edit - Il blog di HTML.it</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Apr 2009 08:07:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://meyerweb.com/?p=1099#comment-454590</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] si tratta di un utilizzo intelligente di tabelle, div e paragrafi). Meyer ha postato sul suo blog alcune considerazioni al [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] si tratta di un utilizzo intelligente di tabelle, div e paragrafi). Meyer ha postato sul suo blog alcune considerazioni al [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Dan Wilkinson</title>
		<link>http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2009/04/07/findings-of-the-a-list-apart-survey-2008/#comment-454411</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan Wilkinson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Apr 2009 16:38:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://meyerweb.com/?p=1099#comment-454411</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[No problem, glad to help. You did all the hard work. Although &lt;a href=&quot;http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2005/09/14/when-printing-maims/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;last time&lt;/a&gt; I did get a t-shirt ;)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No problem, glad to help. You did all the hard work. Although <a href="http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2005/09/14/when-printing-maims/" rel="nofollow">last time</a> I did get a t-shirt ;)</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Eric Meyer</title>
		<link>http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2009/04/07/findings-of-the-a-list-apart-survey-2008/#comment-454351</link>
		<dc:creator>Eric Meyer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Apr 2009 11:05:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://meyerweb.com/?p=1099#comment-454351</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;a href=&quot;http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2009/04/07/findings-of-the-a-list-apart-survey-2008/#comment-454052&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Dan&lt;/a&gt;, thanks a million for your work on this problem.  I&#039;m thinking I&#039;ll sneak in your solution via an &#039;iefix&#039;-type class on the charts that need it.

Right enough, &lt;a href=&quot;http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2009/04/07/findings-of-the-a-list-apart-survey-2008/#comment-454166&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Bruce&lt;/a&gt;-- though I feel compelled to mention that while Firefox users can upgrade their way out of the parsing problem, Camino users can&#039;t unless they&#039;re willing to run beta software.  The auto-upgrade notices in Camino still push 1.6.7, which is based on the FF2 engine.

Anyway, I&#039;m going to revisit some of that stuff in the near future, as I prepare to also revisit the AEA markup.

&lt;a href=&quot;http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2009/04/07/findings-of-the-a-list-apart-survey-2008/#comment-454189&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Josh&lt;/a&gt;, as I said, we almost did that (or at least something very much like it).  I was a little wary of taking that approach with Google Charts, though, since it meant the charts would fail if the GC service were unavailable.  And I didn&#039;t want to pull the images off GC and embed them for accessibility reasons.  Had we decided to go the JS route, I&#039;d probably have used something like Bluff with a JS script as a go-between to scan the tables and construct the Bluff calls.  But why  do that when I could pound my head against the CSS and see if I could pull off the seemingly impossible?

&lt;a href=&quot;http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2009/04/07/findings-of-the-a-list-apart-survey-2008/#comment-454195&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Joe&lt;/a&gt;, do you mean you don&#039;t know of a device that bothers to use &lt;code&gt;tfoot&lt;/code&gt; to create a running table footer (as &lt;code&gt;thead&lt;/code&gt; should create a running table header) in paged media?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2009/04/07/findings-of-the-a-list-apart-survey-2008/#comment-454052" rel="nofollow">Dan</a>, thanks a million for your work on this problem.  I&#8217;m thinking I&#8217;ll sneak in your solution via an &#8216;iefix&#8217;-type class on the charts that need it.</p>
<p>Right enough, <a href="http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2009/04/07/findings-of-the-a-list-apart-survey-2008/#comment-454166" rel="nofollow">Bruce</a>&#8211; though I feel compelled to mention that while Firefox users can upgrade their way out of the parsing problem, Camino users can&#8217;t unless they&#8217;re willing to run beta software.  The auto-upgrade notices in Camino still push 1.6.7, which is based on the FF2 engine.</p>
<p>Anyway, I&#8217;m going to revisit some of that stuff in the near future, as I prepare to also revisit the AEA markup.</p>
<p><a href="http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2009/04/07/findings-of-the-a-list-apart-survey-2008/#comment-454189" rel="nofollow">Josh</a>, as I said, we almost did that (or at least something very much like it).  I was a little wary of taking that approach with Google Charts, though, since it meant the charts would fail if the GC service were unavailable.  And I didn&#8217;t want to pull the images off GC and embed them for accessibility reasons.  Had we decided to go the JS route, I&#8217;d probably have used something like Bluff with a JS script as a go-between to scan the tables and construct the Bluff calls.  But why  do that when I could pound my head against the CSS and see if I could pull off the seemingly impossible?</p>
<p><a href="http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2009/04/07/findings-of-the-a-list-apart-survey-2008/#comment-454195" rel="nofollow">Joe</a>, do you mean you don&#8217;t know of a device that bothers to use <code>tfoot</code> to create a running table footer (as <code>thead</code> should create a running table header) in paged media?</p>
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		<title>By: William Lawrence</title>
		<link>http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2009/04/07/findings-of-the-a-list-apart-survey-2008/#comment-454219</link>
		<dc:creator>William Lawrence</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Apr 2009 16:43:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://meyerweb.com/?p=1099#comment-454219</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Great work as always and super short ans sweet CSS work. That being said, I&#039;ve a question if you don&#039;t mind:

I understand the how and why your reset.css does what it does, but why can&#039;t you add &lt;code&gt;:focus&lt;/code&gt; to wherever you add &lt;code&gt;:hover&lt;/code&gt; just in case there might be someone who uses a keyboard in a browser that&#039;d recognise the dynamic pseudo class selector to figure out where they are in the documents?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great work as always and super short ans sweet CSS work. That being said, I&#8217;ve a question if you don&#8217;t mind:</p>
<p>I understand the how and why your reset.css does what it does, but why can&#8217;t you add <code>:focus</code> to wherever you add <code>:hover</code> just in case there might be someone who uses a keyboard in a browser that&#8217;d recognise the dynamic pseudo class selector to figure out where they are in the documents?</p>
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		<title>By: Joe Clark</title>
		<link>http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2009/04/07/findings-of-the-a-list-apart-survey-2008/#comment-454195</link>
		<dc:creator>Joe Clark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Apr 2009 13:25:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://meyerweb.com/?p=1099#comment-454195</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Well, I don&quot;t know of any device that even bothers with &lt;code&gt;tfoot&lt;/code&gt;, which is solely for @media print {} in the first place.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, I don&#8221;t know of any device that even bothers with <code>tfoot</code>, which is solely for @media print {} in the first place.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Josh Clark</title>
		<link>http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2009/04/07/findings-of-the-a-list-apart-survey-2008/#comment-454189</link>
		<dc:creator>Josh Clark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Apr 2009 13:02:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://meyerweb.com/?p=1099#comment-454189</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[As always, an amazing display of CSS chops. Thanks for sharing the background details and the associated trials and tribulations. In the past, those kinds of headaches have confounded my efforts to display tables as charts via CSS. Great to see that you stared &#039;em down.

Lately, my approach has instead been to use a bit of JavaScript to convert plain tables into Google Charts. Doing that, it turns out that bar charts, pie charts, and line charts are pretty easy to wrangle. I blogged about it with an example here: &lt;a href=&quot;http://globalmoxie.com/blog/google-charts-from-tables.shtml&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Turn Your Tables into Spiffy Charts&lt;/a&gt;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As always, an amazing display of CSS chops. Thanks for sharing the background details and the associated trials and tribulations. In the past, those kinds of headaches have confounded my efforts to display tables as charts via CSS. Great to see that you stared &#8216;em down.</p>
<p>Lately, my approach has instead been to use a bit of JavaScript to convert plain tables into Google Charts. Doing that, it turns out that bar charts, pie charts, and line charts are pretty easy to wrangle. I blogged about it with an example here: <a href="http://globalmoxie.com/blog/google-charts-from-tables.shtml" rel="nofollow">Turn Your Tables into Spiffy Charts</a></p>
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