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	<title>Comments on: Rounding Off</title>
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	<link>http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2010/02/10/rounding-off/</link>
	<description>Things that Eric A. Meyer, CSS expert, writes about on his personal Web site; it&#039;s largely Web standards and Web technology, but also various bits of culture, politics, personal observations, and other miscellaneous stuff</description>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Max</title>
		<link>http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2010/02/10/rounding-off/#comment-515426</link>
		<dc:creator>Max</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Nov 2010 05:11:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/?p=1253#comment-515426</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[To squarecandy: Why use a fractional font size?

This article discusses font HEIGHT, but doesn&#039;t touch on the side effect - font WIDTH.

If you want a piece of text to fill a horizontal space (like a banner for a title) as close as possible, then the fractions are very helpful.

Say you want to fill a space 700px wide.  If your text is 650px wide at 10px high, then:

10.0px high = 650px wide
10.5px high = about 685px wide
10.7px high = about 695px wide  (your ideal size)

Those fractional sizes can be handy.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To squarecandy: Why use a fractional font size?</p>
<p>This article discusses font HEIGHT, but doesn&#8217;t touch on the side effect &#8211; font WIDTH.</p>
<p>If you want a piece of text to fill a horizontal space (like a banner for a title) as close as possible, then the fractions are very helpful.</p>
<p>Say you want to fill a space 700px wide.  If your text is 650px wide at 10px high, then:</p>
<p>10.0px high = 650px wide<br />
10.5px high = about 685px wide<br />
10.7px high = about 695px wide  (your ideal size)</p>
<p>Those fractional sizes can be handy.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Max</title>
		<link>http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2010/02/10/rounding-off/#comment-515422</link>
		<dc:creator>Max</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Nov 2010 04:59:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/?p=1253#comment-515422</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[While there is a &quot;rounding&quot; issue, it isn&#039;t necessarially the browser&#039;s fault.  The browser calculates what it wants to draw, but it ultimately passes it to a rendering engine. Firefox, IE, whatever doesn&#039;t calculate which pixels are which colors, it has the OS draw for it.  The OS can have limitations on it&#039;s rendering, plus the FONT can (true-type vs bitmapped).

The browser may be choosing (i.e. round before passing to the OS) because it knows the OS&#039;s behavior - or simply out of bad programming, or because it can&#039;t tell how the OS will render the font, not knowing if the system&#039;s font file format and scaling options.  Heck, on most OS&#039;s you can replace the text drawing core - such as supporting a new format.

Add to that, the OS is written to try and allow for the fact the output might be on your screen OR your printer.

Firefox&#039;s smooth size change may actually be a case of &quot;fire and hope&quot; where it passes it to the OS and happens to get lucky it renders well - try the test with a bitmapped font and you may get different results. Oh, like courier at 6px, which windows doesn&#039;t like to do.

There SHOULD be a W3C rule that if a browser is going to round it should REALLY round (i.e. 0.5 split point) in order to get universal behavior where possible. (they can&#039;t dictate OS font render engines but this would make them as &quot;alike&quot; as possible).

I strongly agree with others info should be shown as:
 Size = rawsize (rendersize)
so you have as much info as possible.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>While there is a &#8220;rounding&#8221; issue, it isn&#8217;t necessarially the browser&#8217;s fault.  The browser calculates what it wants to draw, but it ultimately passes it to a rendering engine. Firefox, IE, whatever doesn&#8217;t calculate which pixels are which colors, it has the OS draw for it.  The OS can have limitations on it&#8217;s rendering, plus the FONT can (true-type vs bitmapped).</p>
<p>The browser may be choosing (i.e. round before passing to the OS) because it knows the OS&#8217;s behavior &#8211; or simply out of bad programming, or because it can&#8217;t tell how the OS will render the font, not knowing if the system&#8217;s font file format and scaling options.  Heck, on most OS&#8217;s you can replace the text drawing core &#8211; such as supporting a new format.</p>
<p>Add to that, the OS is written to try and allow for the fact the output might be on your screen OR your printer.</p>
<p>Firefox&#8217;s smooth size change may actually be a case of &#8220;fire and hope&#8221; where it passes it to the OS and happens to get lucky it renders well &#8211; try the test with a bitmapped font and you may get different results. Oh, like courier at 6px, which windows doesn&#8217;t like to do.</p>
<p>There SHOULD be a W3C rule that if a browser is going to round it should REALLY round (i.e. 0.5 split point) in order to get universal behavior where possible. (they can&#8217;t dictate OS font render engines but this would make them as &#8220;alike&#8221; as possible).</p>
<p>I strongly agree with others info should be shown as:<br />
 Size = rawsize (rendersize)<br />
so you have as much info as possible.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: squarecandy</title>
		<link>http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2010/02/10/rounding-off/#comment-501876</link>
		<dc:creator>squarecandy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Jun 2010 23:14:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/?p=1253#comment-501876</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hey great article...

But the headache this gives me makes me want to toss the em&#039;s go back to the good old days of everything in px...
;)

But seriously - until all of our A-rated browsers support the sub-pixel rendering in the FF example, shouldn&#039;t we be coding things so that they land at full integer values as much as possible?  When a designer hands us a PSD doc with 11.5pt arial, shouldn&#039;t we be asking &quot;do you mean 11px or 12px?&quot;

I guess my question is - what&#039;s the practical application of 
&lt;code&gt;b {font-size: 1.04em;}&lt;/code&gt;
right now if it leads to unpredictable results?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey great article&#8230;</p>
<p>But the headache this gives me makes me want to toss the em&#8217;s go back to the good old days of everything in px&#8230;<br />
;)</p>
<p>But seriously &#8211; until all of our A-rated browsers support the sub-pixel rendering in the FF example, shouldn&#8217;t we be coding things so that they land at full integer values as much as possible?  When a designer hands us a PSD doc with 11.5pt arial, shouldn&#8217;t we be asking &#8220;do you mean 11px or 12px?&#8221;</p>
<p>I guess my question is &#8211; what&#8217;s the practical application of<br />
<code>b {font-size: 1.04em;}</code><br />
right now if it leads to unpredictable results?</p>
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		<title>By: Austin Cheney</title>
		<link>http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2010/02/10/rounding-off/#comment-497594</link>
		<dc:creator>Austin Cheney</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 Apr 2010 17:05:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/?p=1253#comment-497594</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I have already tested this scenario in multiple browsers.  The correct answer is that different browsers approximate the values to different degrees of certainty.  IE7 and IE6, for instance will approximate a value down to the nearest 5 hundreths of an em if 1em is equal to 10 pixels.  Opera and Firefox allowed a greater degree of certainty, but I did not bother to test anything more specific than hundredths of an em where 1em is equal to 10px.

Here is the test platform that I used:
http://mailmarkup.org/zen/

Please feel free to play with the css values and alter them to become more specific to see where the browser begins rounding values in conflict with the specifics you provide.  The degree of precision is set pretty high and specific by default for many of the values, so it becomes very easy to see finite changes.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have already tested this scenario in multiple browsers.  The correct answer is that different browsers approximate the values to different degrees of certainty.  IE7 and IE6, for instance will approximate a value down to the nearest 5 hundreths of an em if 1em is equal to 10 pixels.  Opera and Firefox allowed a greater degree of certainty, but I did not bother to test anything more specific than hundredths of an em where 1em is equal to 10px.</p>
<p>Here is the test platform that I used:<br />
<a href="http://mailmarkup.org/zen/" rel="nofollow">http://mailmarkup.org/zen/</a></p>
<p>Please feel free to play with the css values and alter them to become more specific to see where the browser begins rounding values in conflict with the specifics you provide.  The degree of precision is set pretty high and specific by default for many of the values, so it becomes very easy to see finite changes.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Willem</title>
		<link>http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2010/02/10/rounding-off/#comment-493178</link>
		<dc:creator>Willem</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Feb 2010 21:39:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/?p=1253#comment-493178</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[@Philip Renich: A bit off topic perhaps, but am I correct to interpret from your post that browsers apart from firefox (ie, webkit) round calculated font-pixels to values close to a third of a pixel (0.32px)?
I ask because for my current project I am dealing with a line-height of phi em (approx. 1.618034em) to a 100%/16px font-size. When I set a box to a line-height of 2phi (approx. 3.236068em), firefox renders the resulting box exactly at 2 lines worth, but in webkit pixels are added and my vertical rhythm is disturbed. If such a .32px render factor is a given i could script to achieve proper alignment.

Cheers]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Philip Renich: A bit off topic perhaps, but am I correct to interpret from your post that browsers apart from firefox (ie, webkit) round calculated font-pixels to values close to a third of a pixel (0.32px)?<br />
I ask because for my current project I am dealing with a line-height of phi em (approx. 1.618034em) to a 100%/16px font-size. When I set a box to a line-height of 2phi (approx. 3.236068em), firefox renders the resulting box exactly at 2 lines worth, but in webkit pixels are added and my vertical rhythm is disturbed. If such a .32px render factor is a given i could script to achieve proper alignment.</p>
<p>Cheers</p>
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		<title>By: Oli</title>
		<link>http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2010/02/10/rounding-off/#comment-492352</link>
		<dc:creator>Oli</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 Feb 2010 06:48:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/?p=1253#comment-492352</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I’d also like to see both values (rendered with computed in brackets &amp; gray or smaller).

I also get frustrated by em-value rounding, in which Safari uses a rounded value (plus compounding errors) whereas Firefox uses the specified value (if I remember correctly). This becomes really apparent when designing to a baseline grid, even with 4 or 5 decimal places.

Designing for the platform of Dao is 0.49999 finding the brilliant solutions (thank you for this one) and 1/2 letting go ^^]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I’d also like to see both values (rendered with computed in brackets &amp; gray or smaller).</p>
<p>I also get frustrated by em-value rounding, in which Safari uses a rounded value (plus compounding errors) whereas Firefox uses the specified value (if I remember correctly). This becomes really apparent when designing to a baseline grid, even with 4 or 5 decimal places.</p>
<p>Designing for the platform of Dao is 0.49999 finding the brilliant solutions (thank you for this one) and 1/2 letting go ^^</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Ethan</title>
		<link>http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2010/02/10/rounding-off/#comment-492245</link>
		<dc:creator>Ethan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Feb 2010 20:57:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/?p=1253#comment-492245</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[If I had to choose between the computed value and the rendered value, I&#039;d take the computed one in a second. They both have their uses, but it&#039;s easy to determine the rendered value from the computed value (just use a little javascript that detects the browser and applies its rounding rules), but it&#039;s harder to go the other way.

Obviously though, in an ideal world, I&#039;d want both.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If I had to choose between the computed value and the rendered value, I&#8217;d take the computed one in a second. They both have their uses, but it&#8217;s easy to determine the rendered value from the computed value (just use a little javascript that detects the browser and applies its rounding rules), but it&#8217;s harder to go the other way.</p>
<p>Obviously though, in an ideal world, I&#8217;d want both.</p>
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		<title>By: Jeff L</title>
		<link>http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2010/02/10/rounding-off/#comment-492226</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff L</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Feb 2010 16:02:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/?p=1253#comment-492226</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I have to disagree with ppk here (&lt;a href=&quot;http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2010/02/10/rounding-off/#comment-492175&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;# 17&lt;/a&gt;):

&lt;blockquote&gt;Still, the inspector inspects the end result as rendered on-screen, and should report the final values.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

The inspectors inspects the element in the DOM. It shows you the CSS applied to that element. The inspector is showing you (and telling you that it&#039;s showing you) the COMPUTED style. If an inspector is showing you a rendered style, it should say so.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have to disagree with ppk here (<a href="http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2010/02/10/rounding-off/#comment-492175" rel="nofollow"># 17</a>):</p>
<blockquote><p>Still, the inspector inspects the end result as rendered on-screen, and should report the final values.</p></blockquote>
<p>The inspectors inspects the element in the DOM. It shows you the CSS applied to that element. The inspector is showing you (and telling you that it&#8217;s showing you) the COMPUTED style. If an inspector is showing you a rendered style, it should say so.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Wesley Platt</title>
		<link>http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2010/02/10/rounding-off/#comment-492224</link>
		<dc:creator>Wesley Platt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Feb 2010 14:26:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/?p=1253#comment-492224</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Personally I would like to see both the computed and rendered styles.  I prefer the solution because the computed style could potentially effect other elements on the page(per the spec).  On the other hand, CSS is a design tool, and a designer is more worried about what the page will look like then what it is supposed to look like.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Personally I would like to see both the computed and rendered styles.  I prefer the solution because the computed style could potentially effect other elements on the page(per the spec).  On the other hand, CSS is a design tool, and a designer is more worried about what the page will look like then what it is supposed to look like.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Steven Pemberton</title>
		<link>http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2010/02/10/rounding-off/#comment-492217</link>
		<dc:creator>Steven Pemberton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Feb 2010 11:27:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/?p=1253#comment-492217</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Well, this behaviour seems to match what the spec says should happen...
It talks of specified values, computed values, used values, and actual values. So you specify 1.04em, which gets computed to 10.4px, which gets matched to a font, to give you a used value of 10px.
http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS2/cascade.html#value-stages
It is the computed value that gets inherited.
http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS2/cascade.html#inheritance
The font-matching algorithm says &#039;font-size&#039; must be matched within a UA-dependent margin of tolerance.
http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS2/fonts.html#algorithm
The only thing the spec doesn&#039;t specify is what the Javascript should return, but if the call name is &quot;Computed X&quot; then I would expect the computed value, not the used value. Though I&#039;m pretty sure I&#039;d like to know the used value too, especially since it is UA dependent.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, this behaviour seems to match what the spec says should happen&#8230;<br />
It talks of specified values, computed values, used values, and actual values. So you specify 1.04em, which gets computed to 10.4px, which gets matched to a font, to give you a used value of 10px.<br />
<a href="http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS2/cascade.html#value-stages" rel="nofollow">http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS2/cascade.html#value-stages</a><br />
It is the computed value that gets inherited.<br />
<a href="http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS2/cascade.html#inheritance" rel="nofollow">http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS2/cascade.html#inheritance</a><br />
The font-matching algorithm says &#8216;font-size&#8217; must be matched within a UA-dependent margin of tolerance.<br />
<a href="http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS2/fonts.html#algorithm" rel="nofollow">http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS2/fonts.html#algorithm</a><br />
The only thing the spec doesn&#8217;t specify is what the Javascript should return, but if the call name is &#8220;Computed X&#8221; then I would expect the computed value, not the used value. Though I&#8217;m pretty sure I&#8217;d like to know the used value too, especially since it is UA dependent.</p>
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		<title>By: Lars Gunther</title>
		<link>http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2010/02/10/rounding-off/#comment-492212</link>
		<dc:creator>Lars Gunther</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Feb 2010 10:03:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/?p=1253#comment-492212</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I prefer the Firefox way, i.e. through clever use of subpixel positioning have the text match what is most probably the desired intent of the author. What is drawn on the screen and what is reported is the same thing.

As for the browsers that round to integer values, of course it would be better to report both values. Anyone who has filed a bug with Opera or Webkit?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I prefer the Firefox way, i.e. through clever use of subpixel positioning have the text match what is most probably the desired intent of the author. What is drawn on the screen and what is reported is the same thing.</p>
<p>As for the browsers that round to integer values, of course it would be better to report both values. Anyone who has filed a bug with Opera or Webkit?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Jon</title>
		<link>http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2010/02/10/rounding-off/#comment-492210</link>
		<dc:creator>Jon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Feb 2010 09:35:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/?p=1253#comment-492210</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I think it&#039;s entirely correct that the computed styles show the values that are used to actually render the page. That&#039;s the behaviour I want and expect. Perhaps the name &quot;computed&quot; could be misleading, it would be more accurate to call them the rendered styles. Perhaps the browsers could show the &lt;i&gt;computed&lt;/i&gt; style in brackets or some such &quot;font-size: 10px (10.49999999)&quot;, but I&#039;m not sure I see the value in having this information.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think it&#8217;s entirely correct that the computed styles show the values that are used to actually render the page. That&#8217;s the behaviour I want and expect. Perhaps the name &#8220;computed&#8221; could be misleading, it would be more accurate to call them the rendered styles. Perhaps the browsers could show the <i>computed</i> style in brackets or some such &#8220;font-size: 10px (10.49999999)&#8221;, but I&#8217;m not sure I see the value in having this information.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Eric TF Bat</title>
		<link>http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2010/02/10/rounding-off/#comment-492192</link>
		<dc:creator>Eric TF Bat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Feb 2010 23:30:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/?p=1253#comment-492192</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Chrome in XP is doing the same as Firefox.  Once again I feel envious of the vastly superior font-handling in OSX: a feeling that persists until I chance to look at an OSX screen, whereupon something inside me goes &lt;i&gt;ewwwww&lt;/i&gt;.  I like it in theory, but it feels wrong in practice.  That is, of course, entirely a personal response, and I do not require anyone to agree with me.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Chrome in XP is doing the same as Firefox.  Once again I feel envious of the vastly superior font-handling in OSX: a feeling that persists until I chance to look at an OSX screen, whereupon something inside me goes <i>ewwwww</i>.  I like it in theory, but it feels wrong in practice.  That is, of course, entirely a personal response, and I do not require anyone to agree with me.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Scott Plumlee</title>
		<link>http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2010/02/10/rounding-off/#comment-492184</link>
		<dc:creator>Scott Plumlee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Feb 2010 21:21:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/?p=1253#comment-492184</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;blockquote cite=&quot;http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2010/02/10/rounding-off/&quot;&gt;This tells us something about the inspectors that most of us probably don’t consciously realize: that what they show us rests directly on the same JS/DOM calls we could write ourselves.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

You can really see this if you inspect the inspector, which I learned you could do a while back while complaining about how the Webkit inspector doesn&#039;t do something like Firebug. &lt;a href=&quot;http://twitter.com/xeenon/status/2761521255&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;@xeenon  told me&lt;/a&gt; it&#039;s just built using HTML/CSS/Javascript.  Webkit nightlies allow you to do this in the context menu - start webkit, start the inspector, hover over what appears to be &#039;chrome&#039; of the inspector, right click/two finger click, and choose &#039;Inspect Element&#039;.  Then you can see the markup of the inspector itself.  However, you can&#039;t write a user stylesheet that changes the inspector as Webkit doesn&#039;t honor those.  You can edit the one hiding deep inside the WebKit.app bundle, though.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote cite="http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2010/02/10/rounding-off/"><p>This tells us something about the inspectors that most of us probably don’t consciously realize: that what they show us rests directly on the same JS/DOM calls we could write ourselves.</p></blockquote>
<p>You can really see this if you inspect the inspector, which I learned you could do a while back while complaining about how the Webkit inspector doesn&#8217;t do something like Firebug. <a href="http://twitter.com/xeenon/status/2761521255" rel="nofollow">@xeenon  told me</a> it&#8217;s just built using HTML/CSS/Javascript.  Webkit nightlies allow you to do this in the context menu &#8211; start webkit, start the inspector, hover over what appears to be &#8216;chrome&#8217; of the inspector, right click/two finger click, and choose &#8216;Inspect Element&#8217;.  Then you can see the markup of the inspector itself.  However, you can&#8217;t write a user stylesheet that changes the inspector as Webkit doesn&#8217;t honor those.  You can edit the one hiding deep inside the WebKit.app bundle, though.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Miles Carmany</title>
		<link>http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2010/02/10/rounding-off/#comment-492182</link>
		<dc:creator>Miles Carmany</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Feb 2010 21:04:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/?p=1253#comment-492182</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Some of this is a bit over my head, but it seems like the problem (if there is one?) is just that browsers can only approximate in the render what they calculate internally?

See http://www.clagnut.com/blog/2228/]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Some of this is a bit over my head, but it seems like the problem (if there is one?) is just that browsers can only approximate in the render what they calculate internally?</p>
<p>See <a href="http://www.clagnut.com/blog/2228/" rel="nofollow">http://www.clagnut.com/blog/2228/</a></p>
]]></content:encoded>
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