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	<title>Comments on: Defining ‘ch’</title>
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	<link>http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2012/05/15/defining-ch/</link>
	<description>Things that Eric A. Meyer, CSS expert, writes about on his personal Web site; it&#039;s largely Web standards and Web technology, but also various bits of culture, politics, personal observations, and other miscellaneous stuff</description>
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	<item>
		<title>By: A Nobody on the Internet</title>
		<link>http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2012/05/15/defining-ch/#comment-693954</link>
		<dc:creator>A Nobody on the Internet</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Jun 2012 18:30:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/?p=1838#comment-693954</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;blockquote&gt;Personally, I can’t see any use for ‘ch’ outside of the context of a monospaced font though, since outside of that context it doesn’t relate to much in the design space.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

&quot;ch&quot; is a very handy unit when one is working with CJK entities (or any language that uses fullwidth form, for that matter).]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Personally, I can’t see any use for ‘ch’ outside of the context of a monospaced font though, since outside of that context it doesn’t relate to much in the design space.</p></blockquote>
<p>&#8220;ch&#8221; is a very handy unit when one is working with CJK entities (or any language that uses fullwidth form, for that matter).</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Bert Vanderveen</title>
		<link>http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2012/05/15/defining-ch/#comment-682600</link>
		<dc:creator>Bert Vanderveen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 May 2012 08:13:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/?p=1838#comment-682600</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Maybe using ch is THE way to ensure proper display of tabular material. You would define the lay-out in ch and it would be font-independent (some people and some browsers override css-font specs).]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Maybe using ch is THE way to ensure proper display of tabular material. You would define the lay-out in ch and it would be font-independent (some people and some browsers override css-font specs).</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Smylers</title>
		<link>http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2012/05/15/defining-ch/#comment-679303</link>
		<dc:creator>Smylers</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 May 2012 07:54:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/?p=1838#comment-679303</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[John Hudson:

&lt;blockquote&gt;I presume CSS defines ‘ch’ in terms of the width of the zero glyph arbitrarily ... Personally, I can’t see any use for ‘ch’ outside of the context of a monospaced font though&lt;/blockquote&gt;

There are several variable-width typefaces in which the digits 0 to 9 all have the same width as each other, so this could be useful in laying out numerical data in many fonts.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>John Hudson:</p>
<blockquote><p>I presume CSS defines ‘ch’ in terms of the width of the zero glyph arbitrarily &#8230; Personally, I can’t see any use for ‘ch’ outside of the context of a monospaced font though</p></blockquote>
<p>There are several variable-width typefaces in which the digits 0 to 9 all have the same width as each other, so this could be useful in laying out numerical data in many fonts.</p>
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		<title>By: Antonio Cavedoni</title>
		<link>http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2012/05/15/defining-ch/#comment-678283</link>
		<dc:creator>Antonio Cavedoni</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 May 2012 22:34:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/?p=1838#comment-678283</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[If you don’t just want to go by Wikipedia, another document that mentions the term “advance width” is &lt;a href=&quot;https://developer.apple.com/fonts/TTRefMan/RM06/Chap6hmtx.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;the TrueType spec&lt;/a&gt;.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If you don’t just want to go by Wikipedia, another document that mentions the term “advance width” is <a href="https://developer.apple.com/fonts/TTRefMan/RM06/Chap6hmtx.html" rel="nofollow">the TrueType spec</a>.</p>
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		<title>By: John Hudson</title>
		<link>http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2012/05/15/defining-ch/#comment-678277</link>
		<dc:creator>John Hudson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 May 2012 22:21:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/?p=1838#comment-678277</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&#039;Advance measure&#039; = &#039;advance width&#039; = distance from the left sidebearing of a glyph to the right sidebearing of a glyph.

As Tab notes, this is most useful in dealing with monospaced, &#039;fixed width&#039; fonts, and I presume CSS defines &#039;ch&#039; in terms of the width of the zero glyph arbitrarily so that for any font -- at least, any font containing a glyph mapped to the zero character -- a &#039;ch&#039; value could be determined. Personally, I can&#039;t see any use for &#039;ch&#039; outside of the context of a monospaced font though, since outside of that context it doesn&#039;t relate to much in the design space.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8216;Advance measure&#8217; = &#8216;advance width&#8217; = distance from the left sidebearing of a glyph to the right sidebearing of a glyph.</p>
<p>As Tab notes, this is most useful in dealing with monospaced, &#8216;fixed width&#8217; fonts, and I presume CSS defines &#8216;ch&#8217; in terms of the width of the zero glyph arbitrarily so that for any font &#8212; at least, any font containing a glyph mapped to the zero character &#8212; a &#8216;ch&#8217; value could be determined. Personally, I can&#8217;t see any use for &#8216;ch&#8217; outside of the context of a monospaced font though, since outside of that context it doesn&#8217;t relate to much in the design space.</p>
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		<title>By: Joe Clark</title>
		<link>http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2012/05/15/defining-ch/#comment-678122</link>
		<dc:creator>Joe Clark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 May 2012 18:24:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/?p=1838#comment-678122</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;code&gt;ch&lt;/code&gt; can also be used to produce a standard feature of typography that has been absent by definition all this time: Tab stops. Try laying out a screenplay without them.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><code>ch</code> can also be used to produce a standard feature of typography that has been absent by definition all this time: Tab stops. Try laying out a screenplay without them.</p>
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		<title>By: [Friday Links] The Move Edition</title>
		<link>http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2012/05/15/defining-ch/#comment-674463</link>
		<dc:creator>[Friday Links] The Move Edition</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 May 2012 13:21:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/?p=1838#comment-674463</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] Defining ‘ch’ [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Defining ‘ch’ [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Moob</title>
		<link>http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2012/05/15/defining-ch/#comment-672515</link>
		<dc:creator>Moob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 May 2012 09:42:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/?p=1838#comment-672515</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[@hoops please can you provide a link. &lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Font&quot; title=&quot;wikipedia&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Font&lt;/a&gt; defines the advance width as &lt;q cite=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Font&quot;&gt;the proper distance between the glyph&#039;s initial pen position and the next glyph&#039;s initial pen position&lt;/q&gt; it makes no mention of this being independent of the glyph contents. 

&lt;a href=&quot;http://fontforge.sourceforge.net/editexample5.html&quot; title=&quot;examining metrics&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;This page about fontforge&lt;/a&gt; has some pertinent info but I&#039;ve yet to find a clear definition.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@hoops please can you provide a link. <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Font" title="wikipedia" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Font</a> defines the advance width as <q cite="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Font">the proper distance between the glyph&#8217;s initial pen position and the next glyph&#8217;s initial pen position</q> it makes no mention of this being independent of the glyph contents. </p>
<p><a href="http://fontforge.sourceforge.net/editexample5.html" title="examining metrics" rel="nofollow">This page about fontforge</a> has some pertinent info but I&#8217;ve yet to find a clear definition.</p>
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		<title>By: MikeNGarrett</title>
		<link>http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2012/05/15/defining-ch/#comment-672202</link>
		<dc:creator>MikeNGarrett</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 May 2012 19:01:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/?p=1838#comment-672202</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[@Tab Atkins Jr Very interesting. I had no idea.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Tab Atkins Jr Very interesting. I had no idea.</p>
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		<title>By: Tab Atkins Jr</title>
		<link>http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2012/05/15/defining-ch/#comment-672188</link>
		<dc:creator>Tab Atkins Jr</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 May 2012 18:38:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/?p=1838#comment-672188</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[@MikeNGarrett: There is a difference - monospace fonts (of which braille fonts are a subset) all have the quality that their character widths are equal, but the ratio of character width to em box is *not* consistent between all such fonts.

The ch unit lets you ignore the ratio and just use the width directly, so you know that exactly 40 characters will fit in a &quot;width: 40ch;&quot; box.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@MikeNGarrett: There is a difference &#8211; monospace fonts (of which braille fonts are a subset) all have the quality that their character widths are equal, but the ratio of character width to em box is *not* consistent between all such fonts.</p>
<p>The ch unit lets you ignore the ratio and just use the width directly, so you know that exactly 40 characters will fit in a &#8220;width: 40ch;&#8221; box.</p>
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		<title>By: hoops</title>
		<link>http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2012/05/15/defining-ch/#comment-672144</link>
		<dc:creator>hoops</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 May 2012 17:12:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/?p=1838#comment-672144</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The Wikipedia entry is the best so far. The advance is simply a magnitude specified per glyph in the font. It is not a derived property. It is independent of the glyph contents. No two rendering engines will position glyphs in exactly the same location so the exact relationship between advance and position (if any) is a complex one. So… 

this is wrong
&gt; As I understand it the ‘advance width’ is the sum of the width of the glyph itself plus the space before (its left bearing) and the space after (its right bearing)

as is this 
&gt; the “advance width” of a glyph is the horizontal space reserved by that glyph for its drawing

this might be true some of the time, depending on engine implementation
&gt; Advance width is how far the pen moves between drawing characters

this might be true, but i don&#039;t see anything requiring that it must be true
&gt; if I were to create a floated element with just a “0” and no whitespace between it and the element’s open and close tags, then the float’s width would be precisely 1ch]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Wikipedia entry is the best so far. The advance is simply a magnitude specified per glyph in the font. It is not a derived property. It is independent of the glyph contents. No two rendering engines will position glyphs in exactly the same location so the exact relationship between advance and position (if any) is a complex one. So… </p>
<p>this is wrong<br />
&gt; As I understand it the ‘advance width’ is the sum of the width of the glyph itself plus the space before (its left bearing) and the space after (its right bearing)</p>
<p>as is this<br />
&gt; the “advance width” of a glyph is the horizontal space reserved by that glyph for its drawing</p>
<p>this might be true some of the time, depending on engine implementation<br />
&gt; Advance width is how far the pen moves between drawing characters</p>
<p>this might be true, but i don&#8217;t see anything requiring that it must be true<br />
&gt; if I were to create a floated element with just a “0” and no whitespace between it and the element’s open and close tags, then the float’s width would be precisely 1ch</p>
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		<title>By: MikeNGarrett</title>
		<link>http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2012/05/15/defining-ch/#comment-672077</link>
		<dc:creator>MikeNGarrett</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 May 2012 15:00:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/?p=1838#comment-672077</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[As far as I can tell there&#039;s no difference if it&#039;s used for the intended purpose, ie spacing monospace and braille type.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As far as I can tell there&#8217;s no difference if it&#8217;s used for the intended purpose, ie spacing monospace and braille type.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Dusty</title>
		<link>http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2012/05/15/defining-ch/#comment-672076</link>
		<dc:creator>Dusty</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 May 2012 14:55:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/?p=1838#comment-672076</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[In practical terms, how would using ch differ from em?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In practical terms, how would using ch differ from em?</p>
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		<title>By: Joshua</title>
		<link>http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2012/05/15/defining-ch/#comment-672069</link>
		<dc:creator>Joshua</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 May 2012 14:38:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/?p=1838#comment-672069</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[How do you even pronounce this unit? Same as with &quot;church&quot; or &quot;chew&quot;?

&quot;This element should be 10 tʃ wide.&quot;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>How do you even pronounce this unit? Same as with &#8220;church&#8221; or &#8220;chew&#8221;?</p>
<p>&#8220;This element should be 10 tʃ wide.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Matthew Douglass</title>
		<link>http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2012/05/15/defining-ch/#comment-672068</link>
		<dc:creator>Matthew Douglass</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 May 2012 14:37:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/?p=1838#comment-672068</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[FreeType&#039;s docs at http://www.freetype.org/freetype2/docs/glyphs/glyphs-3.html cover this well.  The image in that page also explains it visually (sorry, no way to get that URL on the iPad)

Advance width is how far the pen moves between drawing characters.  This does not correspond directly with how wide the character is, though I&#039;m not 100% certain of CSS&#039; definition of character box width. 

Also, advance width is usually where kerning comes in (strictly speaking, kerning modifies the default advance width of a character).  I&#039;m assuming, though, that the CSS ch does not have kerning taken into account, since it&#039;s the default advance width of a 0, not its advance width in relation to another character.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>FreeType&#8217;s docs at <a href="http://www.freetype.org/freetype2/docs/glyphs/glyphs-3.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.freetype.org/freetype2/docs/glyphs/glyphs-3.html</a> cover this well.  The image in that page also explains it visually (sorry, no way to get that URL on the iPad)</p>
<p>Advance width is how far the pen moves between drawing characters.  This does not correspond directly with how wide the character is, though I&#8217;m not 100% certain of CSS&#8217; definition of character box width. </p>
<p>Also, advance width is usually where kerning comes in (strictly speaking, kerning modifies the default advance width of a character).  I&#8217;m assuming, though, that the CSS ch does not have kerning taken into account, since it&#8217;s the default advance width of a 0, not its advance width in relation to another character.</p>
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