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	<title>Comments on: Don&#8217;t Care About Market Share</title>
	<atom:link href="http://meyerweb.com/index.php?year=2004&#038;monthnum=12&#038;day=20&#038;name=market-share-dont-care&#038;feed=feed" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2004/12/20/market-share-dont-care/</link>
	<description>Things that Eric A. Meyer, CSS expert, writes about on his personal Web site; it&#039;s largely Web standards and Web technology, but also various bits of culture, politics, personal observations, and other miscellaneous stuff</description>
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		<title>By: RAMsey</title>
		<link>http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2004/12/20/market-share-dont-care/#comment-226458</link>
		<dc:creator>RAMsey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Aug 2007 01:27:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2004/12/20/market-share-dont-care/#comment-226458</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;A Visit to Browser Stats...&lt;/strong&gt;

Matt Mullenweg writes: 
I&quot;m at An Event Apart in Chicago and Eric Meyer just said that browser statistics were “worse than useless.” More specifically, the only browser share numbers that matter are the one for sites you run, not what the web at ...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>A Visit to Browser Stats&#8230;</strong></p>
<p>Matt Mullenweg writes:<br />
I&#8221;m at An Event Apart in Chicago and Eric Meyer just said that browser statistics were “worse than useless.” More specifically, the only browser share numbers that matter are the one for sites you run, not what the web at &#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: WD Milner</title>
		<link>http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2004/12/20/market-share-dont-care/#comment-47471</link>
		<dc:creator>WD Milner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Sep 2006 00:13:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2004/12/20/market-share-dont-care/#comment-47471</guid>
		<description>My apologies for the typos in the above - sore hands and lazy proof reading - mea culpa.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My apologies for the typos in the above &#8211; sore hands and lazy proof reading &#8211; mea culpa.</p>
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		<title>By: WD Milner</title>
		<link>http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2004/12/20/market-share-dont-care/#comment-47470</link>
		<dc:creator>WD Milner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Sep 2006 00:12:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2004/12/20/market-share-dont-care/#comment-47470</guid>
		<description>I agree with the &quot;know thy audience&quot; approach, adn with giving ptiority to your own siter statistics.

That said, there is one thing to be aware of - what is known as the &quot;self-fulfilling prophecy&quot;. porneL touches on it above and Luke Barton fairly creates it.

If you design syour site one way, so that it works primarily, or only, for visitors using one type of technology be it browser type/version, connection method, reading method etc, then the logs for you site will be massively skewed to the audience you designed it for. Sure there will be te occasional other visitor show up, but they won;t come back and over time your stats will show exactly what you created them to show - not becasue there aren&#039;t users out there with something different that would like to visit/use your site, but becasue, for one reason or another, they are unable to becasue you designed it that way.

I have a small book that was given me as a humourous, and yet serious, gift by one of my mathematics professors when I was an occasional TA for him. It&#039;s called &quot;How to Lie with Statistics&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with the &#8220;know thy audience&#8221; approach, adn with giving ptiority to your own siter statistics.</p>
<p>That said, there is one thing to be aware of &#8211; what is known as the &#8220;self-fulfilling prophecy&#8221;. porneL touches on it above and Luke Barton fairly creates it.</p>
<p>If you design syour site one way, so that it works primarily, or only, for visitors using one type of technology be it browser type/version, connection method, reading method etc, then the logs for you site will be massively skewed to the audience you designed it for. Sure there will be te occasional other visitor show up, but they won;t come back and over time your stats will show exactly what you created them to show &#8211; not becasue there aren&#8217;t users out there with something different that would like to visit/use your site, but becasue, for one reason or another, they are unable to becasue you designed it that way.</p>
<p>I have a small book that was given me as a humourous, and yet serious, gift by one of my mathematics professors when I was an occasional TA for him. It&#8217;s called &#8220;How to Lie with Statistics&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: Eric&#8217;s Archived Thoughts: Don&#8217;t Care About Market Share   at  go.</title>
		<link>http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2004/12/20/market-share-dont-care/#comment-19879</link>
		<dc:creator>Eric&#8217;s Archived Thoughts: Don&#8217;t Care About Market Share   at  go.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Mar 2006 21:43:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2004/12/20/market-share-dont-care/#comment-19879</guid>
		<description>[...] gly Websites 		 Spore Gameplay Video - Google Video &#187; 		 	  	 		 	 			 			 				 					 [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] gly Websites 		 Spore Gameplay Video &#8211; Google Video &raquo; 		 	  	 		 	 			 			 				 					 [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Max Design - standards based web design, development and training  &#187; Blog Archive   &#187; Some links for light reading (21/12/04)</title>
		<link>http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2004/12/20/market-share-dont-care/#comment-11635</link>
		<dc:creator>Max Design - standards based web design, development and training  &#187; Blog Archive   &#187; Some links for light reading (21/12/04)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Jan 2006 20:46:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2004/12/20/market-share-dont-care/#comment-11635</guid>
		<description>[...] t reading (21/12/04)			 			 				December 21st, 2004			 				 Web design world cool-down 	Don&#8217;t Care About Market Share 	HTML tags 	ALT attribute (ALT tag,  [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] t reading (21/12/04)			</p>
<p> 				December 21st, 2004<br />
 				 Web design world cool-down 	Don&#8217;t Care About Market Share 	HTML tags 	ALT attribute (ALT tag,  [...]</p>
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		<title>By: cobal</title>
		<link>http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2004/12/20/market-share-dont-care/#comment-7064</link>
		<dc:creator>cobal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 Oct 2005 22:41:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2004/12/20/market-share-dont-care/#comment-7064</guid>
		<description>Firefox 43% (+/- 32) me too :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Firefox 43% (+/- 32) me too :)</p>
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		<title>By: just to let you know</title>
		<link>http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2004/12/20/market-share-dont-care/#comment-3640</link>
		<dc:creator>just to let you know</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Dec 2004 22:37:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2004/12/20/market-share-dont-care/#comment-3640</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;Browsers and Marketshare&lt;/strong&gt;
Good piece on the recently surged discussions on browser share and IE6&#039;s potential end of No.1 rule. Despite me being fairly upbeat about Firefoxes success, Eric hits the nail on the head again as usual: We design for a community...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>Browsers and Marketshare</strong><br />
Good piece on the recently surged discussions on browser share and IE6&#8242;s potential end of No.1 rule. Despite me being fairly upbeat about Firefoxes success, Eric hits the nail on the head again as usual: We design for a community&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Roy Schestowitz</title>
		<link>http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2004/12/20/market-share-dont-care/#comment-3559</link>
		<dc:creator>Roy Schestowitz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Dec 2004 07:53:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2004/12/20/market-share-dont-care/#comment-3559</guid>
		<description>The problem I find with statistics like that is that visitors of any site fit certain criteria. On my site, Firefox is a majority, but it tends to attract bloggers, Palm user, and... myself (true FF user). Care about &lt;em&gt;your&lt;/em&gt; market share, not the big published figures.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The problem I find with statistics like that is that visitors of any site fit certain criteria. On my site, Firefox is a majority, but it tends to attract bloggers, Palm user, and&#8230; myself (true FF user). Care about <em>your</em> market share, not the big published figures.</p>
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		<title>By: Marc</title>
		<link>http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2004/12/20/market-share-dont-care/#comment-3529</link>
		<dc:creator>Marc</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Dec 2004 17:58:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2004/12/20/market-share-dont-care/#comment-3529</guid>
		<description>Since being &quot;enlightened&quot; earlier this year, I will not make a website unless it looks the same in all browsers since IE 5.5 etc, that way I don&#039;t rule out any browser.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Since being &#8220;enlightened&#8221; earlier this year, I will not make a website unless it looks the same in all browsers since IE 5.5 etc, that way I don&#8217;t rule out any browser.</p>
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		<title>By: Satya</title>
		<link>http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2004/12/20/market-share-dont-care/#comment-3487</link>
		<dc:creator>Satya</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 26 Dec 2004 16:17:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2004/12/20/market-share-dont-care/#comment-3487</guid>
		<description>I agree completely. Know your audience. If you DO care about which browser to design for, only look at your own site statistics. If you don&#039;t care, no statistics and factual infos would be necessary.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree completely. Know your audience. If you DO care about which browser to design for, only look at your own site statistics. If you don&#8217;t care, no statistics and factual infos would be necessary.</p>
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		<title>By: blufive</title>
		<link>http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2004/12/20/market-share-dont-care/#comment-3443</link>
		<dc:creator>blufive</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Dec 2004 22:38:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2004/12/20/market-share-dont-care/#comment-3443</guid>
		<description>My response got too long to be a comment, so I posted it &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.livejournal.com/community/stats_weenie/2004/12/24/&quot;&gt;here&lt;/a&gt;.

Martin Reurings:
There are definitely problems with the figures in OneStat&#039;s November press release.  They just don&#039;t make sense when compared to their previous releases.  More &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.livejournal.com/community/stats_weenie/2004/11/22/&quot;&gt;here&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My response got too long to be a comment, so I posted it <a href="http://www.livejournal.com/community/stats_weenie/2004/12/24/">here</a>.</p>
<p>Martin Reurings:<br />
There are definitely problems with the figures in OneStat&#8217;s November press release.  They just don&#8217;t make sense when compared to their previous releases.  More <a href="http://www.livejournal.com/community/stats_weenie/2004/11/22/">here</a></p>
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		<title>By: Martin Reurings</title>
		<link>http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2004/12/20/market-share-dont-care/#comment-3391</link>
		<dc:creator>Martin Reurings</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Dec 2004 09:31:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2004/12/20/market-share-dont-care/#comment-3391</guid>
		<description>To underline your statements Eric, I noticed &lt;a href=&quot;http://news.com.com/Firefox+surpasses+10+million+download+mark/2100-1025_3-5488279.html&quot;&gt;this article at CNET&lt;/a&gt; today. Which, and I quote, said amongst other things:
&lt;blockquote&gt;
&quot;It seems that people are switching from Microsoft&#039;s Internet Explorer to Mozilla&#039;s new Firefox browser,&quot; Niels Brinkman, co-founder of OneStat.com, said in a statement in November.

Microsoft has disputed these numbers, claiming that they do not represent corporate users. 
&lt;/blockquote&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To underline your statements Eric, I noticed <a href="http://news.com.com/Firefox+surpasses+10+million+download+mark/2100-1025_3-5488279.html">this article at CNET</a> today. Which, and I quote, said amongst other things:</p>
<blockquote><p>
&#8220;It seems that people are switching from Microsoft&#8217;s Internet Explorer to Mozilla&#8217;s new Firefox browser,&#8221; Niels Brinkman, co-founder of OneStat.com, said in a statement in November.</p>
<p>Microsoft has disputed these numbers, claiming that they do not represent corporate users.
</p></blockquote>
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		<title>By: Martin Reurings</title>
		<link>http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2004/12/20/market-share-dont-care/#comment-3390</link>
		<dc:creator>Martin Reurings</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Dec 2004 08:47:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2004/12/20/market-share-dont-care/#comment-3390</guid>
		<description>I generally aggre with all of what Eric posted, but I just wanted to throw in two more reasons why general statistics may be widely off-scale.
1. As Eric mentioned some websites don&#039;t allow acces to anything other than IE, as this doesn&#039;t go in reverse (I don&#039;t know of any site that does not allow IE) the general statistics of, for instance, WebsiteStory are biased, as a portion of the hits for which they seem to gather statistics are quite likely based on above mentioned sites.
2. I, and every IT specialist in my surrounding uses FireFox and with FireFox comes this nifty tool called AddBlock. The result, as far as WebsiteStory is concerned, I&#039;m a ghost, I don&#039;t count because I don&#039;t want them to see me, they&#039;ll just require more time for a page to finish loading...

However, it&#039;s verry nice to have a post of someone whom people listen to to back up my story when I try to convince someone that browser-statistics don&#039;t matter.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I generally aggre with all of what Eric posted, but I just wanted to throw in two more reasons why general statistics may be widely off-scale.<br />
1. As Eric mentioned some websites don&#8217;t allow acces to anything other than IE, as this doesn&#8217;t go in reverse (I don&#8217;t know of any site that does not allow IE) the general statistics of, for instance, WebsiteStory are biased, as a portion of the hits for which they seem to gather statistics are quite likely based on above mentioned sites.<br />
2. I, and every IT specialist in my surrounding uses FireFox and with FireFox comes this nifty tool called AddBlock. The result, as far as WebsiteStory is concerned, I&#8217;m a ghost, I don&#8217;t count because I don&#8217;t want them to see me, they&#8217;ll just require more time for a page to finish loading&#8230;</p>
<p>However, it&#8217;s verry nice to have a post of someone whom people listen to to back up my story when I try to convince someone that browser-statistics don&#8217;t matter.</p>
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		<title>By: Al</title>
		<link>http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2004/12/20/market-share-dont-care/#comment-3386</link>
		<dc:creator>Al</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Dec 2004 22:05:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2004/12/20/market-share-dont-care/#comment-3386</guid>
		<description>Our site gets 7-10 thousand unique visitors a day with this breakdown for November:

IE6: 60%
Firefox: 16%
IE5: 9%
Mozilla: 5%
IE5.5: 3%
Opera &lt;1%
NN4 &lt;1%


Our site is not quite as geeky as Meyerweb or Complex Spiral, but is comprised almost exclusively of web developers. Although the stats are completely different than Eric&#039;s, it does support his opinion unequivacably.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Our site gets 7-10 thousand unique visitors a day with this breakdown for November:</p>
<p>IE6: 60%<br />
Firefox: 16%<br />
IE5: 9%<br />
Mozilla: 5%<br />
IE5.5: 3%<br />
Opera &lt;1%<br />
NN4 &lt;1%</p>
<p>Our site is not quite as geeky as Meyerweb or Complex Spiral, but is comprised almost exclusively of web developers. Although the stats are completely different than Eric&#8217;s, it does support his opinion unequivacably.</p>
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		<title>By: Nathan</title>
		<link>http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2004/12/20/market-share-dont-care/#comment-3379</link>
		<dc:creator>Nathan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Dec 2004 12:51:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2004/12/20/market-share-dont-care/#comment-3379</guid>
		<description>If I may just throw another variable into the mix here.

there are so many young people leaving collage, Uni, High School, etc. I would love to know that they understand the whole browser debate? What I mean is, do they even know that a browser existed before IE 5.0?

As a lot of the web designers of the future are just leaving higher education right now (in Australia) to enter the real world, I would like to think they have the knowledge they need to really understand where the web has come from, and not just where it is going..

I suppose what I am asking is, are the web designers of the future going to be as backward compatible as the web designers of this era? Do they even know that older browsers don&#039;t support CSS, etc? Unless of course they are the self educating type.

I am personally of the opinion that  a solid &quot;web curriculum&quot; is needed within the education systems world wide if these new comers are going to meet the standards set by &quot;geeks&quot; (sorry) like us / you guys ;). To this day there is still not one &quot;course&quot; that would satisfy even my expectations (as an employer) of a &quot;Qualified Web Designer&quot; and this is the year 2004.

By the way, this is all coming from someone who has only 3years experience of running his own web design business, but the point is if you don&#039;t care about what you a serving then why bother serving it at all? (unless time is a constraint when trying to rebuild your own site ;) .)

Sorry I think I may have strayed off topic...

Just my humble opinion, cheers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If I may just throw another variable into the mix here.</p>
<p>there are so many young people leaving collage, Uni, High School, etc. I would love to know that they understand the whole browser debate? What I mean is, do they even know that a browser existed before IE 5.0?</p>
<p>As a lot of the web designers of the future are just leaving higher education right now (in Australia) to enter the real world, I would like to think they have the knowledge they need to really understand where the web has come from, and not just where it is going..</p>
<p>I suppose what I am asking is, are the web designers of the future going to be as backward compatible as the web designers of this era? Do they even know that older browsers don&#8217;t support CSS, etc? Unless of course they are the self educating type.</p>
<p>I am personally of the opinion that  a solid &#8220;web curriculum&#8221; is needed within the education systems world wide if these new comers are going to meet the standards set by &#8220;geeks&#8221; (sorry) like us / you guys ;). To this day there is still not one &#8220;course&#8221; that would satisfy even my expectations (as an employer) of a &#8220;Qualified Web Designer&#8221; and this is the year 2004.</p>
<p>By the way, this is all coming from someone who has only 3years experience of running his own web design business, but the point is if you don&#8217;t care about what you a serving then why bother serving it at all? (unless time is a constraint when trying to rebuild your own site ;) .)</p>
<p>Sorry I think I may have strayed off topic&#8230;</p>
<p>Just my humble opinion, cheers.</p>
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