I am not a scientologist even though I do anti-psychiatry writing. So actually all of these points are null and void.

Labels are the stigma that change the way that people look at one another, treat one another, stigmatize one another, and stereotype one another and that is all they are.

I have never known any good results from psychiatry and psychology, I have seen a lot of drug abusers and abuse, a lot of deaths from it, and a lot of hurt and pain caused by it even though that is what they say they are there to fix.

It is a sad shame that so many people have it coerced and forced on them which makes it look as though it is all voluntary when so very much of it isn’t, and it does not work.

Some of the things that they have gotten under their wings should be available to all people without them having to get addicted to mind altering non helpful dangerous drugs or other treatments, it is sad the way that they are doing things.

Why do you suppose such a small group stirs the soup to such a large degree? The people who don’t like it or who had a bad experience with it hate it with fury. It seems to me that if “mind control” is a big issue then Scientology has really captured the minds of some of the people who oppose it, far more than the people who like it. These folks have angry emotion triggered every time the word Scientology is mentioned, and that seems to me to be a startling example of having your mind controlled by something. Some of these men and women have been mad at this group for years and years and apparently can’t get over it. I had the same disgust for the military when I was in the service forty years ago, but I got over it in about a month once I finally finished my tour. Sheesh! I’m glad I don’t start steaming every time someone says “Marine Corps”.

As for Psychiatry: this is another tiny group. There are only a small percentage of doctors who are also psychiatrists. It is more than a little fishy that Psychiatry has “discovered” that millions upon millions of kids are mentally ill, and billions of dollars should be spent altering their brains. Common sense would tell you to be careful with your kid’s brains, but some people just assume that Doctor knows best. It is true that Psychiatry has a dubious history, and Tom Cruise is correct about that. He would get more people to listen and less people to reject him if he was less preachy and scolding about it. But still, the facts are facts: Earlier breakthrough “cures” include lobotomies, shock treatments, sterilization, wet sheet bondage, ice baths, isolation, loss of liberty for years because you were “odd” but not necessarily dangerous, and on and on. I don’t think Psychiatry is evil incarnate like Mr. Cruise perhaps does, but I sure would give it a wide berth, given their track record.

At any rate, I don’t really care one way or the other about the subject, but I do find it completely fascinating that some people carry on for years about an unpleasant experience, and other people rant and rave about a church they’ve never even attended. Also fascinating is that even the most devoted parents can blithely put chemicals in their kid’s brains without so much as ten minutes personal research on the internet about the long-term consequences. C’est la vie!

http://www.indiana.edu/~intell/flynneffect.shtml#intro

coastalgirl, if what you say about things on the internet in large part are written by idiots, then that would mean all those anti-Scientology sites should not be taken seriously. That would also mean 95% of Alvin’s sources are crap, as that’s obviously where he gets his information.

Obviously there are former members that are speaking out against Scientology, but those don’t make up the bulk of the critics. Alvin said ONLY the most outspoken critics are ex-members. This is not true so why are you saying everything he said is correct?

Then there’s the bit about the e-meter. Once again, not accurate. This little machine outputs hardly any electricity at all so it would be ineffective in creating an electrically induced euphoria as he claims.

No, coastalgirl, Alvin’s information is NOT 100% correct. He didn’t even get the basic function of the e-meter right.

Yeah, I sit here and call people names but it’s not like they’re not doing the same! I can pick on people’s spelling when they make about a hundred typos. Why should anyone take the word on someone who is so uneducated that they can’t distinguish the difference between “your” and “you’re”? That’s disgraceful.

And what the h*ll are you talking about with Rochelle? I didn’t even say anything bad about her! Go ahead, show where I “attacked” her! I only disagreed with the effectiveness she claimed these school psychologists have when the test scores are continually falling.

I don’t know Tom Cruise that much so I don’t know how much in common I have with him. I myself wouldn’t come off so strong on TV, I can tell you that. I would also tell those stupid screaming female fans to shut up.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion even if it’s mislead? Bullsh*t. No one is entitled to a mislead opinion. In case you haven’t noticed, opinions MATTER. They determine what laws we will follow, who will be elected to office, what kinds of products and organizations we will support, etc. This isn’t just, “I don’t like Scientology.” This is, “Scientology should not be allowed to be in practice.” That sound like an opinion that should be allowed if mislead?

No one will take your post seriously since you got pretty much 90% of what you said dead wrong. Try again.

Alright, first off, the e-meter does not emit that much electricity to cause the body to create endorphins. You can read easily that the e-meter only puts 1 volt of electricty through the body, an amount which you wouldn’t be able to even feel, to measure the body’s electrical charge. It in itself does nothing. It is only a measuring tool used as a guide by the auditor.

Then this guy says only the outspoken critics are ex-Scientologists. And how did he come to this conclusion? Has he been around the internet? Most of the outspoken critics AREN’T ex-members. Yes, there are some but a lot of these hardcore critics have never done anything in Scientology. Have you ever heard of Robert Minton? This banked critics in their efforts to attack Scientology, all out of his own pocket totalling in the millions. Was he an ex-member? No.

Maybe Tom said that if-you-don’t-like-it-fuck-you thing because he was tired of people talking shit about him.

“There are no spiritual powers. There is no clearing of the “reactive mind”. There is only delusion.” Isn’t that up to the person themselves? I don’t see how you could say there is no help or cure. Maybe you couldn’t handle it when you were involved in it. Maybe they said, “This guy’s too much of a lying piece of shit to be able to help.” Anyway, thanks for the glaring errors.

What i mean is, the people who most hate christianity are not ex-christians. The people who most hate jews were never jews themselves.

The people who most hate Scientology were once part of it, once believed in it, and were then victimized by it. Think about that before you call it a religion.

In the words of Tom Cruise: “Some people, well, if they don’t like Scientology, well, then, fuck you. Fuck you. Period.”

This is the mentality which members are gradually taught to accept.

The methods of ‘spiritual advancement’ in Scientology are based on fraud. They specifically promise something that their creator knew full well does not exist. It was designed this way. The chief con is the e-meter, which appears to offer therapeutic release, but really relies on a current of electricity stimulating the body. This electricity induces endorphans to be released in the body, creating a sense of euphoria. Scientology auditing becomes addictive in the same way that heroin does, except this e-meter is protected as a ‘religious device’. Members pay OUT THE ASS, sometimes as much as $1,000 per hour for auditing. There are no results. There are no spiritual powers. There is no clearing of the ‘reactive mind’. There is only delusion. Hubbard closely studied hypnotism, psychoanalysis, and how to maintain a group mentality. He did this for GREED and POWER, and for no other reasons. All of this is reflected in the way Scientology operates. It is Orwellian.

Anyone who thinks Scientology is just another cute alternative religion doesn’t know what they are talking about. The people who criticize Scientology are not ignorant bigots. In fact, most of Scientology’s critics are EX-MEMBERS, who have seen the con for what it is and know the elaborate way in which your mind can be influenced to part with money. I tried out Scientology for a period of about six months. Then I realized that it is not a religion, but is in fact an organized criminal conspiracy based on fraud.

Well, Rochelle, when I said your post was “logical” I just meant that it actually showed you had some knowledge on something instead of the other idiots who were just running their mouths about stuff they know little to nothing about.

Though I’m no expert, I am aware of a school pscyhologist’s training: general psychology, child development, brain functions, child behavior and behavior disorders, etc. I’m not sure why you went so into this and then not answer the points I made eaerlier however….

But honestly, there are worse things being communicated in one form or another by other celebrities which are far more dangerous. Let’s take MTV. They promote poor music, materialism, not having to actually work for your money, slutty, TASTELESS fashion for girls and just a general false portrayal of life. I could go on but it’s these things that bother me. Tom Cruise expressed something he says he did some research over and actually says it with conviction.

Yes, celebrities should be careful with what they say and we shouldn’t believe a celebrity just because they’re a celebrity. However, Tom hasn’t told anyone what to do in regards to their mental health or lifestyle. All he said is psychiatry is a psuedo-science, there is no such thing as a chemical imbalance, psychiatric drugs are bad and Brooke Shields and Matt Lauer were promoting something irresponsibly, as well as Brooke could have handled her condition without turning to drugs. It’s obvious by the radicalness of his claims that he wanted people to look into this for themselves.

I’d rather listen to celebrities talk about real issues in their craft, the arts and life in general than about B.S. such as how you can get rich and look cool by being interesting in some reality show and what have you.

But my other points still stand. Drugs are not only over-prescribed but they are prescribed without knowing what is causing the very thing they are trying to mask. There is at the very least conflicting research on the existence and proof of a chemical imbalance in the brain as the cause of mental illness. These are all available on the web.

But even more obvious is that despite all the training you and others in your field have had kids simply aren’t getting any smarter in school. Yes, they have some success here and there but the average intelligence of kids in the public school system has been on the decline for DECADES now. Plus, there are more and more school shootings as well as general violence. And this all happens despite the increase in funding for school psychologists and their various programs, not the mention the increased public awareness in all this.

But it would be nice for you to respond to my earlier comments.

Glad that you considered at least some of my post “logical.” I again need to clarify…school psychologists are not “psychiatrists.” School psychologists go through university training programs in which they are granted Master’s and PhD’s in school psychology. Most school psychologists have Master’s degrees and some go on to pursue PhD’s, either in school psychology or clinical psychology. Training for school psychologists is primarily educationally-based with study in child development and psychology, counseling, and psychoeducational assessment and intervention. We work with students, teachers, counselors and parents to identify students with special learning needs and to ensure that those students get the accommodations and services they need (specially designed instruction and materials, testing accommodations, tutoring, speech, physical, or occupational therapies, etc.). We do not have medical training. There are no “school psychiatrists” that I know of. So no, psychologists are not medical doctors. Most clinical psychologists in private practice do counseling and cognitive-behavioral therapies. They may consult with medical doctors and make referrals when they feel that an individual would benefit from medication. There are medical doctors, psychiatrists (who complete medical training just like other physicians), neurologists, etc. who function in private settings who are able to prescribe medication for various disorders. They are held to rigorous medical standards and if they are unethical or guilty of malpractice can have their licenses revoked. As in any other field, some of these practitioners are better than others. In this world we live in, many people at one time or another experience some form of mental illness or distress. This is often in response to traumatic events and loss. This can also be brought on by hormonal and biochemical changes. Or also can be influenced by genetic factors. Try talking to someone going through menopause, or dealing with the stress of an aging, sick relative. Or raising a child with severe disabilities. Or dealing with their own chronic illness. I do not presume to tell anyone how to live their lives…we are each responsible for the choices we make and for the most part I believe that we are all trying to do the best we can. If you read the ongoing research regarding brain chemistry you can see that we are beginning to understand some of the complex underpinnings as to why and how we react the way we do. Again, as I’d mentioned earlier – my main point is a holistic one. How we function on a daily basis is a result of the complex interactions between:
our general physical wellbeing and health, nutrition, exercise, sleep, mental outlook (positive vs. negative), sense of control over one’s life, environmental factors, relationships with others, genetic makeup, interests and work habits. I suppose that I would have to say that this whole “Cruise” debate is probably a good thing. I personally like to be grounded in factual anaylsis. If someone benefits from the pursuit of scientology, that is their call. As long as they aren’t hurting someone else in the process. Rational debate is a good thing. My concern is about the celebrity culture phenomenon. Celebrities have their own baggage they have to deal with, but in dealing with it they probably tend to insulate themselves more from certain authentic aspects of life. They have a tremendous power to communicate and influence others. That should be carefully considered and weighed prior to making pronouncements.

Actually, Rochelle Haas’ comment wasn’t so bad. It was actually pretty logical. However, like many others here, there are a few flaws….

First off, Michael Hammond didn’t stress one point, and that is the whole point of drugs. I won’t go into how much of this is the case, but drugs are a commodity. You can’t sell a cure like “get plenty of rest, fluids and vitamins”. You CAN, however, sell a pill. So it is no small wonder why we have so many drugs out there, often when there is a cure that does not require medication. The pharmaceutical companies know this and are taking full advantage of this at your expense.

Ritalin does often lose its effectiveness and so the dosage is raised. This is proven. Don’t argue it.

Despite what your title may be, Rochelle Haas, there are school psychiatrists and doctors, and they do do all this diagnosing, prescription-filling and dosage increasing. They are more often than not lazy scumbags guised as healers and a disgrace to their profession.

I have not personally heard of a caes of ADHD that requires medication, except MAYBE for hormones. Causes for this condition include diet, homone imbalance, boredom (from the kid) and the kid just not understanding what he is studying. You’ll notice this type of problem did not become a problem until the introduction of this condition as well as the medication that’s supposed to help the condition.

Now to your remarks on Tom Cruise. Uber-mind of the universe? Uh, I think someone’s exagerrating something to get their point across.

And this is something that I take issue with with other people, not just you. He doesn’t go shooting his mouth off, expressing his views and pretending to be a know-it-all. First off, I don’t know about the “Entertainment Tonight” comment came up, but on “The Today Show” the host with the terrible haircut, a.k.a. Matt Lauer, directly ASKED him about his views. Matt further argued with Tom despite the fact ist was supposed to be a light interview and an opportunity for Tom to promote his movie. Tom merely argued Matt’s point and said he’s done more study on the subject than Matt.

You say Tom is telling people how to live their lives? All I heard was that he disagreed with psychiatry and its medications. Where did you get the part where he told people how to live their lives? Oh, the thing about vitamins, is that it? He mentioned other ways of curing the condition Brooke had, but even that doesn’t sound like he’s telling people how to live their lives. Yet more words put in Tom’s mouth.

Oh, and Andrea Yates went psycho on her poor, innocent kids because she was experiencing withdrawal from her medication, and psychosis and mania are side effects of withdrawals. She was not weaned off the medication under the care of a doctor like she should have been. This is another issue that is not touched on by the drug companies, nor the doctors that push them.

I find it odd though that you are considered a psychologist yet not considered a medical doctor. First off, I assume you are A doctor? A doctor in psychology? And also, aren’t psychologists medical doctors even if they aren’t trained in presciption-filling? Technically, the brain is part of the body and you are treating it. That’s just how I understood it.

The rest of you people are still idiots (you know who you are).

Yes, pharmacology and psychopharmacology are major industries with a lot of money invested in research, development, and marketing. Many people’s lives are significantly enhanced and improved by medications targeting many conditions. On the flip side, people need to realize that there is no “silver bullet” that will eradicate all of their problems and make them happy and satisfied. That is a complex interaction of many variables. Exercise, diet, and sleep regimens cannot be emphasized enough. Also, finding work and outlets for expression that you love. And, helping others and strengthening the relationships with people in your life. I also need to correct a comment. Mr. Hammond mentioned that over time, Ritalin loses effectiveness, and “school psychologists” keep upping the dosages. As a school psychologist, I need to tell Mr. Hammond that we are not medical doctors (as are psychiatrists) and we are not able to prescribe medication. We function in the educational environment and do assessments and interventions to help children with special learning needs to achieve their potential. We cannot even diagnose ADHD; that is left to a medical doctor, neurologist, clinical psychologist, or psychiatrist. True, there is probably some over-identification of the disorder, but as someone who has worked extensively with children with special needs for almost 16 years, I can tell you that this disorder exists and you know it when you see it. If children are left untreated (and medication is usually prescribed after other interventions are attempted), they are at much higher risk for ongoing learning problems, dropping out of school, and depression. There are also new medications for ADHD that are not stimulants (ie, Strattera) and that appear to work well for many. Regarding the whole issue of Tom Cruise, I could care less if he is a scientologist, although from what I’ve read about it, it definitely seems to have cultish aspects (and it is very disturbing when someone who has been involved turns against it and is labeled a “repressive” person). Also, some of the people who’ve left Scientology have openly talked about how children are mistreated. One man stressed how guilty he felt after his 9 year old daughter received some indoctrination and was never able to laugh again. What upsets me about the whole Tom Cruise thing is how he has been going on all these interviews and shooting his mouth off as if he’s the Uber-Mind of the universe, prattling off all kinds of misinformation. To attack Brooke Shields for taking medication to help her with postpartum depression is absolutely wrong, and sends a terrible message to mothers who are struggling with this. Remember Paula Yates? She had gone off of her medication when she drowned her children. What would Tom have prescribed? Oh, I know, getting hooked up to an e-meter or whatever the hell it is. To presume to admonish and tell others how to live their lives is a tricky business. I have over the years enjoyed Tom Cruise in movies but after this last debacle (and I won’t even go into his manic posturing for the cameras to demonstrate his love for Katie Holmes) I don’t feel much like paying to see him in a movie ever again. Especially since he can’t seem to hide his disdain for my profession, which I love and look forward every day to helping kids feel good about themselves and learn as much as they can so they can become productive members of society.