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	<title>Comments on: Post-Event</title>
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	<link>http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2005/12/06/post-event/</link>
	<description>Things that Eric A. Meyer, CSS expert, writes about on his personal Web site; it&#039;s largely Web standards and Web technology, but also various bits of culture, politics, personal observations, and other miscellaneous stuff</description>
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		<title>By: Jeffrey Zeldman Presents  : An Event Apart Philadelphia Postpartum</title>
		<link>http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2005/12/06/post-event/#comment-22589</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeffrey Zeldman Presents  : An Event Apart Philadelphia Postpartum</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Apr 2006 16:34:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2005/12/06/post-event/#comment-22589</guid>
		<description>[...] yer, our special guest Jason Santa Maria, and various lovely people who came to the show:  Mr Meyer&quot;s thoughts More of Mr Meyer&quot;s thoughts Mr Santa Maria&quot;s thoughts Flickr Event Apart  [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] yer, our special guest Jason Santa Maria, and various lovely people who came to the show:  Mr Meyer&#8221;s thoughts More of Mr Meyer&#8221;s thoughts Mr Santa Maria&#8221;s thoughts Flickr Event Apart  [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Eric Meyer</title>
		<link>http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2005/12/06/post-event/#comment-10423</link>
		<dc:creator>Eric Meyer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Dec 2005 17:16:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2005/12/06/post-event/#comment-10423</guid>
		<description>&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-9900&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Michael said&lt;/a&gt;:

&lt;blockquote&gt;
Still, Eric, you&quot;re too diffident when you speak. I had a hard time hearing everything, so I concentrated (maybe too much so) on your body language. Your gestures were distracting, you often spoke to the screen, and you rarely looked people in the eye. It detracts from the content of your talk.
&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Two things.  First, I learned a new word meaning today!  I always assumed &quot;diffident&quot; meant &quot;indifferent&quot; or &quot;lacksadaisical&quot;; it turns out &lt;a href=&quot;http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=diffident&quot;&gt;it means &quot;shy or timid&quot;&lt;/a&gt;, among other things.  So thanks, Michael!

Second, I don&#039;t doubt you&#039;re right.  I would imagine the reason is twofold.  In the first place, I am by nature somewhat shy, especially in large groups.  Some of that is going to show through when I speak, no matter how much I&#039;ve worked to overcome it (and I have).  The second reason is that when I first started speaking, I was a good deal less confident than I am now.  Since the talks seemed to go well, I probably settled into those diffident kineses as &quot;what works&quot;.

Neither of these is really an excuse, but hopefully serve to explain.  It&#039;s something I struggle with every time I get up in front of a crowd, and some days I&#039;m more successful in the struggle.  AEA appears to have been one of the days I was less successful.  Sorry about that.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="#comment-9900" rel="nofollow">Michael said</a>:</p>
<blockquote><p>
Still, Eric, you&#8221;re too diffident when you speak. I had a hard time hearing everything, so I concentrated (maybe too much so) on your body language. Your gestures were distracting, you often spoke to the screen, and you rarely looked people in the eye. It detracts from the content of your talk.
</p></blockquote>
<p>Two things.  First, I learned a new word meaning today!  I always assumed &#8220;diffident&#8221; meant &#8220;indifferent&#8221; or &#8220;lacksadaisical&#8221;; it turns out <a href="http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=diffident">it means &#8220;shy or timid&#8221;</a>, among other things.  So thanks, Michael!</p>
<p>Second, I don&#8217;t doubt you&#8217;re right.  I would imagine the reason is twofold.  In the first place, I am by nature somewhat shy, especially in large groups.  Some of that is going to show through when I speak, no matter how much I&#8217;ve worked to overcome it (and I have).  The second reason is that when I first started speaking, I was a good deal less confident than I am now.  Since the talks seemed to go well, I probably settled into those diffident kineses as &#8220;what works&#8221;.</p>
<p>Neither of these is really an excuse, but hopefully serve to explain.  It&#8217;s something I struggle with every time I get up in front of a crowd, and some days I&#8217;m more successful in the struggle.  AEA appears to have been one of the days I was less successful.  Sorry about that.</p>
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		<title>By: Bob Monsour</title>
		<link>http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2005/12/06/post-event/#comment-10026</link>
		<dc:creator>Bob Monsour</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Dec 2005 02:31:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2005/12/06/post-event/#comment-10026</guid>
		<description>It did indeed go &quot;great&quot;. Since it was in Philly and only about an hour drive, I could not resist the chance to participate. I found your talk through the ALA implementation as the markovers very instructive (esp since one of my sites was used as an example). Both you and Jeffrey made your books real. We&#039;ve all got the books, but it adds a lot when you get to see and hear and get a sense of the people directly from the people.

Thanks again for the day. I was indeed inspired to improve my skills and stay on the standards track.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It did indeed go &#8220;great&#8221;. Since it was in Philly and only about an hour drive, I could not resist the chance to participate. I found your talk through the ALA implementation as the markovers very instructive (esp since one of my sites was used as an example). Both you and Jeffrey made your books real. We&#8217;ve all got the books, but it adds a lot when you get to see and hear and get a sense of the people directly from the people.</p>
<p>Thanks again for the day. I was indeed inspired to improve my skills and stay on the standards track.</p>
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		<title>By: Strangematter</title>
		<link>http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2005/12/06/post-event/#comment-9978</link>
		<dc:creator>Strangematter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Dec 2005 23:32:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2005/12/06/post-event/#comment-9978</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;An Event Apart: Post-Mortem&lt;/strong&gt;

	
On Monday, December 5th, I attended An Event Apart in Philadelphia (along with some of my co-workers, Joe, Dan and John). I thought it was quite useful: we had Eric Meyer talking to us about CSS and HTML (read his after event thoughts), Jeffrey Zeldm...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>An Event Apart: Post-Mortem</strong></p>
<p>On Monday, December 5th, I attended An Event Apart in Philadelphia (along with some of my co-workers, Joe, Dan and John). I thought it was quite useful: we had Eric Meyer talking to us about CSS and HTML (read his after event thoughts), Jeffrey Zeldm&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Matthew Levine</title>
		<link>http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2005/12/06/post-event/#comment-9973</link>
		<dc:creator>Matthew Levine</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Dec 2005 20:35:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2005/12/06/post-event/#comment-9973</guid>
		<description>I &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.infocraft.com/articles/an_event_apart_experience/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;posted some feedback&lt;/a&gt; elsewhere.  Basically, I thought it was fantastic.  You managed to exceed my admittedly high expectations.  I&#039;d definitely recommend it when it comes to your neighborhood.

I only hope that you decide to make the slides and podcasts publicly available for everyone who wasn&#039;t able to attend.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I <a href="http://www.infocraft.com/articles/an_event_apart_experience/" rel="nofollow">posted some feedback</a> elsewhere.  Basically, I thought it was fantastic.  You managed to exceed my admittedly high expectations.  I&#8217;d definitely recommend it when it comes to your neighborhood.</p>
<p>I only hope that you decide to make the slides and podcasts publicly available for everyone who wasn&#8217;t able to attend.</p>
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		<title>By: PurplePenny</title>
		<link>http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2005/12/06/post-event/#comment-9928</link>
		<dc:creator>PurplePenny</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Dec 2005 22:04:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2005/12/06/post-event/#comment-9928</guid>
		<description>I know that I&#039;m getting to sound like a stuck record but please bring it to the UK.  </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I know that I&#8217;m getting to sound like a stuck record but please bring it to the UK.</p>
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		<title>By: Simon Jessey</title>
		<link>http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2005/12/06/post-event/#comment-9921</link>
		<dc:creator>Simon Jessey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Dec 2005 16:41:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2005/12/06/post-event/#comment-9921</guid>
		<description>I second what &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.phillystandards.org/blog/&quot; title=&quot;Philadelphia Standards Organization&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Jeff&lt;/a&gt; said. It was wonderful that you chose to road-test the event in Philadelphia first, and Jason was a valuable contributor. I liked the venue, although the teething problems with Wi-Fi access were very frustrating - most notably for Jeffrey!

For me, the highlight of the event was hearing about how &lt;a href=&quot;http://alistapart.com/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;A List Apart&lt;/a&gt; 4.0 came together, both from a design and a &lt;abbr title=&quot;Cascading Style Sheets&quot;&gt;CSS&lt;/abbr&gt; perspective. I was also impressed by Jeffrey&#039;s talks on text copy and branding.

Your run-through of Alex Robinson&#039;s &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.positioniseverything.net/articles/onetruelayout/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;&lt;em&gt;One True Layout&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/a&gt; was a revelation. About 5 minutes into your explanation, the very fabric of the universe became apparent. There followed a chorus of clapping noises as one by one, designers slapped their foreheads as they realized they&#039;d missed something bloody obvious for years. I feel like redesigning &lt;em&gt;everything&lt;/em&gt; I have ever done.

I found the discussion about Internet Explorer 7.0 to be very reassuring. I&#039;m confident that nothing I&#039;ve done will be broken by the new beast, and many things will look decidedley better - thanks to a liberal helping of child selectors.

With such high standards (no pun intended), it was inevitable that something didn&#039;t come up to scratch. For me, it was the &lt;em&gt;Critique Corner&lt;/em&gt; segment. One site in particular (I won&#039;t say which) seemed so woefully out of place that I felt sorry for the designer, who must have experienced something akin to a public flogging.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I second what <a href="http://www.phillystandards.org/blog/" title="Philadelphia Standards Organization" rel="nofollow">Jeff</a> said. It was wonderful that you chose to road-test the event in Philadelphia first, and Jason was a valuable contributor. I liked the venue, although the teething problems with Wi-Fi access were very frustrating &#8211; most notably for Jeffrey!</p>
<p>For me, the highlight of the event was hearing about how <a href="http://alistapart.com/" rel="nofollow">A List Apart</a> 4.0 came together, both from a design and a <abbr title="Cascading Style Sheets">CSS</abbr> perspective. I was also impressed by Jeffrey&#8217;s talks on text copy and branding.</p>
<p>Your run-through of Alex Robinson&#8217;s <a href="http://www.positioniseverything.net/articles/onetruelayout/" rel="nofollow"><em>One True Layout</em></a> was a revelation. About 5 minutes into your explanation, the very fabric of the universe became apparent. There followed a chorus of clapping noises as one by one, designers slapped their foreheads as they realized they&#8217;d missed something bloody obvious for years. I feel like redesigning <em>everything</em> I have ever done.</p>
<p>I found the discussion about Internet Explorer 7.0 to be very reassuring. I&#8217;m confident that nothing I&#8217;ve done will be broken by the new beast, and many things will look decidedley better &#8211; thanks to a liberal helping of child selectors.</p>
<p>With such high standards (no pun intended), it was inevitable that something didn&#8217;t come up to scratch. For me, it was the <em>Critique Corner</em> segment. One site in particular (I won&#8217;t say which) seemed so woefully out of place that I felt sorry for the designer, who must have experienced something akin to a public flogging.</p>
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		<title>By: Jeff Louella</title>
		<link>http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2005/12/06/post-event/#comment-9917</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff Louella</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Dec 2005 15:29:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2005/12/06/post-event/#comment-9917</guid>
		<description>Thanks for bringing this event to the Philadelphia region. I enjoyed the day immensely. Though at times I felt it was preaching to the choir, it is alway nice to have you thoughts reinforced by the masters themselves. I also think Jason Santa Maria was a great addition. You should bring him on tour with you guys everywhere.(Jason, you can pay me for that comment later :]).

A few of us in the Philadelphia Standards Organization &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.phillystandards.org/blog&quot; title=&quot;Visit the PSO Blog&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;live blogged the event&lt;/a&gt;. We also posted some pictures there if you want to re-live the events or didn&#039;t have a chance to go.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for bringing this event to the Philadelphia region. I enjoyed the day immensely. Though at times I felt it was preaching to the choir, it is alway nice to have you thoughts reinforced by the masters themselves. I also think Jason Santa Maria was a great addition. You should bring him on tour with you guys everywhere.(Jason, you can pay me for that comment later :]).</p>
<p>A few of us in the Philadelphia Standards Organization <a href="http://www.phillystandards.org/blog" title="Visit the PSO Blog" rel="nofollow">live blogged the event</a>. We also posted some pictures there if you want to re-live the events or didn&#8217;t have a chance to go.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael Hessling</title>
		<link>http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2005/12/06/post-event/#comment-9900</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Hessling</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Dec 2005 04:11:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2005/12/06/post-event/#comment-9900</guid>
		<description>The conference went very well.  It was a pleasure to sit, several rows back, at your feet.  I&#039;m glad I convinced the Agency to pick up the tab, although I would have been pleased to pay my own way.  And a big &lt;strong&gt;Thank You&lt;/strong&gt; for marking over the &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.epa.gov/epafiles/templates/epafiles_hq_basic.htm&quot; title=&quot;Normal template with sidebar for EPA&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;basic template&lt;/a&gt;.

Still, Eric, you&#039;re too diffident when you speak.  I had a hard time hearing everything, so I concentrated (maybe too much so) on your body language.  Your gestures were distracting, you often spoke to the screen, and you rarely looked people in the eye.  It detracts from the content of your talk.

It was shocking because in this site and in your books, you&#039;re very self-assured (the magic of editing?).  When we spoke briefly after the conference, that self-assurance was there, leading me to think you were very nervous during your presentation.  Nervous speakers typically exhibit the above traits.

You know this stuff.  You&#039;re still the &lt;a href=&quot;http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2005/11/01/layout-revolution/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;sheriff in town&lt;/a&gt;, and people like me pay to see you speak.  We may question what you say, but we&#039;ll always be listening.

Of course, I could be wrong.  Maybe you weren&#039;t really nervous.  :grin:

Kudos to you and Jeffrey for a smashing time.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The conference went very well.  It was a pleasure to sit, several rows back, at your feet.  I&#8217;m glad I convinced the Agency to pick up the tab, although I would have been pleased to pay my own way.  And a big <strong>Thank You</strong> for marking over the <a href="http://www.epa.gov/epafiles/templates/epafiles_hq_basic.htm" title="Normal template with sidebar for EPA" rel="nofollow">basic template</a>.</p>
<p>Still, Eric, you&#8217;re too diffident when you speak.  I had a hard time hearing everything, so I concentrated (maybe too much so) on your body language.  Your gestures were distracting, you often spoke to the screen, and you rarely looked people in the eye.  It detracts from the content of your talk.</p>
<p>It was shocking because in this site and in your books, you&#8217;re very self-assured (the magic of editing?).  When we spoke briefly after the conference, that self-assurance was there, leading me to think you were very nervous during your presentation.  Nervous speakers typically exhibit the above traits.</p>
<p>You know this stuff.  You&#8217;re still the <a href="http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2005/11/01/layout-revolution/" rel="nofollow">sheriff in town</a>, and people like me pay to see you speak.  We may question what you say, but we&#8217;ll always be listening.</p>
<p>Of course, I could be wrong.  Maybe you weren&#8217;t really nervous.  :grin:</p>
<p>Kudos to you and Jeffrey for a smashing time.</p>
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		<title>By: Greg Hoy</title>
		<link>http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2005/12/06/post-event/#comment-9895</link>
		<dc:creator>Greg Hoy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Dec 2005 00:39:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2005/12/06/post-event/#comment-9895</guid>
		<description>Thanks Eric for everything. Great work. Resist the urge to make future AEA&#039;s bigger. It was a nice sized group and I think everyone was happy with the results. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks Eric for everything. Great work. Resist the urge to make future AEA&#8217;s bigger. It was a nice sized group and I think everyone was happy with the results.</p>
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		<title>By: Conference Attendee</title>
		<link>http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2005/12/06/post-event/#comment-9887</link>
		<dc:creator>Conference Attendee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Dec 2005 18:55:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2005/12/06/post-event/#comment-9887</guid>
		<description>I wish it would have been both more technical and more theorhetical. The technical examples didn&#039;t get down and dirty enough. Maybe since we had all day, Eric could have slowly and carefully done a project for all of us and explained his thinking. When he was talking math, it was GREAT. I use formulae like those all the time to calculate ems up and down based on a base unit. Have more of that. More reasoning. Teach people to think like you do, not just do what you do.

I wish we could have talked more about what will (or could) happen &quot;next.&quot; Ok, so I have all of my websites marked up and validated to the latest W3C specs, and everything looks good in browsers ... so, do I just wait for browsers to mess things up and then fix broken parts? When you look at what we do as merely marking up content for distribution, is there a point at which we&#039;re done?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I wish it would have been both more technical and more theorhetical. The technical examples didn&#8217;t get down and dirty enough. Maybe since we had all day, Eric could have slowly and carefully done a project for all of us and explained his thinking. When he was talking math, it was GREAT. I use formulae like those all the time to calculate ems up and down based on a base unit. Have more of that. More reasoning. Teach people to think like you do, not just do what you do.</p>
<p>I wish we could have talked more about what will (or could) happen &#8220;next.&#8221; Ok, so I have all of my websites marked up and validated to the latest W3C specs, and everything looks good in browsers &#8230; so, do I just wait for browsers to mess things up and then fix broken parts? When you look at what we do as merely marking up content for distribution, is there a point at which we&#8217;re done?</p>
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		<title>By: Anabella</title>
		<link>http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2005/12/06/post-event/#comment-9886</link>
		<dc:creator>Anabella</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Dec 2005 18:37:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2005/12/06/post-event/#comment-9886</guid>
		<description>Well Eric, it really was great. The fact that some of it wasn&#039;t polished made it better, in my opinion. It gave the whole thing a feeling of being in a room discussing the nitty gritty of things with some (really smart, really knowledgeable) friends, rather than that of being &quot;at a conference&quot;. Keep it that way. When it stumbled it wasn&#039;t annoying, it was largely funny, and we could see the gears grinding, which is what I think all designers want of the folks in charge of the markup when one&#039;s design is pushing the bleeding edge. I loved that you both could say &quot;I don&#039;t know&quot; when you didn&#039;t, and really tried to work things out when posed with a weird question. 
As I drove home I thought to myself, precisely, that I&#039;d love to go back another year and still have it be like chatting with &quot;the team&quot; instead of being presented to. Maybe the fact I was 3 feet away from you guys made that happen more for me, but I don&#039;t think so; I think it would have been largely the same a few rows back.
Way to go! Thanks for a great day, packed with tons of goodies. It wads an honor having been at The First One!

Anabella</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well Eric, it really was great. The fact that some of it wasn&#8217;t polished made it better, in my opinion. It gave the whole thing a feeling of being in a room discussing the nitty gritty of things with some (really smart, really knowledgeable) friends, rather than that of being &#8220;at a conference&#8221;. Keep it that way. When it stumbled it wasn&#8217;t annoying, it was largely funny, and we could see the gears grinding, which is what I think all designers want of the folks in charge of the markup when one&#8217;s design is pushing the bleeding edge. I loved that you both could say &#8220;I don&#8217;t know&#8221; when you didn&#8217;t, and really tried to work things out when posed with a weird question.<br />
As I drove home I thought to myself, precisely, that I&#8217;d love to go back another year and still have it be like chatting with &#8220;the team&#8221; instead of being presented to. Maybe the fact I was 3 feet away from you guys made that happen more for me, but I don&#8217;t think so; I think it would have been largely the same a few rows back.<br />
Way to go! Thanks for a great day, packed with tons of goodies. It wads an honor having been at The First One!</p>
<p>Anabella</p>
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