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	<title>Comments on: Pencilled Out</title>
	<atom:link href="http://meyerweb.com/index.php?year=2005&#038;monthnum=12&#038;day=15&#038;name=pencilled-out&#038;feed=feed" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2005/12/15/pencilled-out/</link>
	<description>Things that Eric A. Meyer, CSS expert, writes about on his personal Web site; it&#039;s largely Web standards and Web technology, but also various bits of culture, politics, personal observations, and other miscellaneous stuff</description>
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		<title>By: Elyaqim Mosheh</title>
		<link>http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2005/12/15/pencilled-out/#comment-404148</link>
		<dc:creator>Elyaqim Mosheh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Aug 2008 19:12:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2005/12/15/pencilled-out/#comment-404148</guid>
		<description>I too have the problem of the pencil being replaced with a z-caron (ž), but I do not have Freight installed. Per the freeware application UnicodeChecker, the guilty font is .Helvetica LT MM, but this is an essential system font that cannot be disabled or removed. I can select one of numerous fonts that will display the character correctly, but I cannot do so with my Web browser which frustratingly always seems to fall back on the z-caron glyph. (This is actually one of my biggest issues with browsers in general: I wish there were a way to inform them to use a particular font when encountering a character in a particular block. I use various contextual Middle Eastern and South Asian scripts, and the browser usually automatically chooses a font that will &lt;i&gt;not&lt;/i&gt; render the characters properly.) I use Mac OS X version 10.4.11, and I hope this font issue has been fixed in 10.5.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I too have the problem of the pencil being replaced with a z-caron (ž), but I do not have Freight installed. Per the freeware application UnicodeChecker, the guilty font is .Helvetica LT MM, but this is an essential system font that cannot be disabled or removed. I can select one of numerous fonts that will display the character correctly, but I cannot do so with my Web browser which frustratingly always seems to fall back on the z-caron glyph. (This is actually one of my biggest issues with browsers in general: I wish there were a way to inform them to use a particular font when encountering a character in a particular block. I use various contextual Middle Eastern and South Asian scripts, and the browser usually automatically chooses a font that will <i>not</i> render the characters properly.) I use Mac OS X version 10.4.11, and I hope this font issue has been fixed in 10.5.</p>
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		<title>By: Dragan Babić</title>
		<link>http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2005/12/15/pencilled-out/#comment-10646</link>
		<dc:creator>Dragan Babić</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Dec 2005 01:37:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2005/12/15/pencilled-out/#comment-10646</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote cite=&quot;Eric&quot;&gt;... my OS X 10.3.9 laptop started rendering that character as a Z with a set of rabbit ears on top&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Haha, the character you are getting is the capital latin Ž. We use it in Serbian, as an entity I have always used # 382 for the lowercase and of course # 381 for the uppercase. It is pronounced like &quot;zh&quot;, the first sound you make when you say, lets see, &quot;jargon&quot;. Something like that. :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote cite="Eric"><p>&#8230; my OS X 10.3.9 laptop started rendering that character as a Z with a set of rabbit ears on top</p></blockquote>
<p>Haha, the character you are getting is the capital latin Ž. We use it in Serbian, as an entity I have always used # 382 for the lowercase and of course # 381 for the uppercase. It is pronounced like &#8220;zh&#8221;, the first sound you make when you say, lets see, &#8220;jargon&#8221;. Something like that. :)</p>
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		<title>By: Mike Davidson</title>
		<link>http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2005/12/15/pencilled-out/#comment-10555</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike Davidson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Dec 2005 07:43:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2005/12/15/pencilled-out/#comment-10555</guid>
		<description>Hmm, yes. I can see you&#039;re a little worn on last century&#039;s image format. Boy do we have something for you though! What&#039;s it going to take to get you into a nice transparent png today?  

&#9774;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hmm, yes. I can see you&#8217;re a little worn on last century&#8217;s image format. Boy do we have something for you though! What&#8217;s it going to take to get you into a nice transparent png today?  </p>
<p>&#9774;</p>
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		<title>By: Eric Meyer</title>
		<link>http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2005/12/15/pencilled-out/#comment-10504</link>
		<dc:creator>Eric Meyer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Dec 2005 02:07:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2005/12/15/pencilled-out/#comment-10504</guid>
		<description>&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-10503&quot;&gt;Mike&lt;/a&gt;: actually, it&#039;s completely &lt;em&gt;un&lt;/em&gt;interesting.  GIFs are &lt;em&gt;so&lt;/em&gt; last century.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="#comment-10503">Mike</a>: actually, it&#8217;s completely <em>un</em>interesting.  GIFs are <em>so</em> last century.</p>
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		<title>By: Mike Davidson</title>
		<link>http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2005/12/15/pencilled-out/#comment-10503</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike Davidson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Dec 2005 01:56:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2005/12/15/pencilled-out/#comment-10503</guid>
		<description>Pencil.gif is also an interesting potential solution to this problem.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Pencil.gif is also an interesting potential solution to this problem.</p>
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		<title>By: Eric Meyer</title>
		<link>http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2005/12/15/pencilled-out/#comment-10502</link>
		<dc:creator>Eric Meyer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Dec 2005 01:43:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2005/12/15/pencilled-out/#comment-10502</guid>
		<description>&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-10488&quot;&gt;Erik&lt;/a&gt;: Nope; &lt;code&gt;&#x200F;&lt;/code&gt; yields nothing at all. &lt;code&gt;&amp;#270F;&lt;/code&gt; gets me the Z-caron again, when it should yield the pencil.

&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-10495&quot;&gt;Peter&lt;/a&gt;: that&#039;s a great idea, since Firefox does in fact show the Z-caron instead of the pencil.  Unfortunately, the computed style information in the DOM Inspector claims that the computed font family is Arial, which is understandable: that&#039;s what I specify.  Character-level fallback happens after the font is computed, apparently, and it&#039;s falling back to FreightMicro.

Even more fun: if I edit the relevant line of my CSS as follows:

&lt;code&gt;#thoughts ul.meta li.editpost a {border: none; color: #999;}&lt;/code&gt;

...then the pencil comes back in all cases except comments from me, which have boldfaced metainformation.  There, FreightMicro comes back, since apparently the character fallback code will use a font face that has the character even if the default has it, but only in a normal-weight face.  That might not have made much sense, but it&#039;s the best I can do right now.

So I think it&#039;s time to hunt down and kill FreightMicro, mostly for lying about what characters it has, or about its Unicode mapping, or whatever it is that&#039;s caused it to screw this up.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="#comment-10488">Erik</a>: Nope; <code>&#x200F;</code> yields nothing at all. <code>&amp;#270F;</code> gets me the Z-caron again, when it should yield the pencil.</p>
<p><a href="#comment-10495">Peter</a>: that&#8217;s a great idea, since Firefox does in fact show the Z-caron instead of the pencil.  Unfortunately, the computed style information in the DOM Inspector claims that the computed font family is Arial, which is understandable: that&#8217;s what I specify.  Character-level fallback happens after the font is computed, apparently, and it&#8217;s falling back to FreightMicro.</p>
<p>Even more fun: if I edit the relevant line of my CSS as follows:</p>
<p><code>#thoughts ul.meta li.editpost a {border: none; color: #999;}</code></p>
<p>&#8230;then the pencil comes back in all cases except comments from me, which have boldfaced metainformation.  There, FreightMicro comes back, since apparently the character fallback code will use a font face that has the character even if the default has it, but only in a normal-weight face.  That might not have made much sense, but it&#8217;s the best I can do right now.</p>
<p>So I think it&#8217;s time to hunt down and kill FreightMicro, mostly for lying about what characters it has, or about its Unicode mapping, or whatever it is that&#8217;s caused it to screw this up.</p>
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		<title>By: Peter J.</title>
		<link>http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2005/12/15/pencilled-out/#comment-10495</link>
		<dc:creator>Peter J.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Dec 2005 00:48:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2005/12/15/pencilled-out/#comment-10495</guid>
		<description>Is it common across browsers?  If so, perhaps the computed styles view in Firefox&#039;s DOM Inspector can shed some light on why that font is being applied instead of the one you expect.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Is it common across browsers?  If so, perhaps the computed styles view in Firefox&#8217;s DOM Inspector can shed some light on why that font is being applied instead of the one you expect.</p>
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		<title>By: Ben Buchanan</title>
		<link>http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2005/12/15/pencilled-out/#comment-10492</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben Buchanan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Dec 2005 00:06:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2005/12/15/pencilled-out/#comment-10492</guid>
		<description>While I don&#039;t have a solution, I am interested to see that unicode is as much a mystery on a Mac &lt;a href=&quot;http://weblog.200ok.com.au/2005/10/i-unicode.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;as it is on a PC&lt;/a&gt;... :)

I have found that different browsers will access different character sets - on my system the glyphs look different in Opera and Firefox; Firefox seems to have its own set stashed somewhere.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>While I don&#8217;t have a solution, I am interested to see that unicode is as much a mystery on a Mac <a href="http://weblog.200ok.com.au/2005/10/i-unicode.html" rel="nofollow">as it is on a PC</a>&#8230; :)</p>
<p>I have found that different browsers will access different character sets &#8211; on my system the glyphs look different in Opera and Firefox; Firefox seems to have its own set stashed somewhere.</p>
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		<title>By: Font browser   ~  Low Weblog</title>
		<link>http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2005/12/15/pencilled-out/#comment-10489</link>
		<dc:creator>Font browser   ~  Low Weblog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Dec 2005 22:56:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2005/12/15/pencilled-out/#comment-10489</guid>
		<description>[...]     	                	            Font browser           		Handige font-browser [via] 	                   d.d. 15         Dec         2005          [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...]    </p>
<p>       Font browser</p>
<p>    		Handige font-browser [via] 	   </p>
<p>         d.d. 15<br />
         Dec<br />
         2005<br />
          [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Erik</title>
		<link>http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2005/12/15/pencilled-out/#comment-10488</link>
		<dc:creator>Erik</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Dec 2005 22:27:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2005/12/15/pencilled-out/#comment-10488</guid>
		<description>Try encoding the pencil (&#x200F;) as &lt;code&gt;&#x200F;&lt;/code&gt;. Does that help?
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Try encoding the pencil (&#x200F;) as <code>&amp;#x200F;</code>. Does that help?</p>
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		<title>By: Eric Meyer</title>
		<link>http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2005/12/15/pencilled-out/#comment-10487</link>
		<dc:creator>Eric Meyer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Dec 2005 22:15:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2005/12/15/pencilled-out/#comment-10487</guid>
		<description>&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-10483&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Steve&lt;/a&gt;: the frustrating thing is that those two pencils DO show up on my laptop.  I was using 9999 because I preferred it to those, but if I must I&#039;ll switch.  Still, I&#039;d like to know why the reference got borked.  For the record, that&#039;s not the font being used to generate the Z, since I don&#039;t have it installed.  It turns out to be FreightMicro, probably FreightMicro-Medium.  Not that I know where FreightMicro came from.

And wow, does it ever take a lot to get the character palette enabled.  I had to Google for it and then follow &lt;a href=&quot;http://whatdoiknow.org/archives/000485.shtml&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;the very clear but lengthy instructions&lt;/a&gt; from Todd Dominey.

Even more frustrating: when I look in the Unicode Table in the Character Palette, the proper symbol shows up at 2700F.  When I select it, the &quot;collections containing selected character&quot; shows me all of the FreightMicro variants, and Zapf Dingbats, which contains the character I actually want.

&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-10484&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Rob&lt;/a&gt;: nope, don&#039;t use Suitcase.  I don&#039;t think I&#039;ve upgraded Safari recently, but either way Idoubt that&#039;s the issue since the same problem appears in both Safari and Firefox.

I guess I can either dump FreightMicro, or else alter my CSS for that link to try symbol fonts instead of sans-serif fonts.  But if I understand Unicode handling properly, there&#039;s no way FreightMicro should even be pretending that it has that character available.  So I&#039;m kind of inclined to blow it away, just for being a bad actor.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="#comment-10483" rel="nofollow">Steve</a>: the frustrating thing is that those two pencils DO show up on my laptop.  I was using 9999 because I preferred it to those, but if I must I&#8217;ll switch.  Still, I&#8217;d like to know why the reference got borked.  For the record, that&#8217;s not the font being used to generate the Z, since I don&#8217;t have it installed.  It turns out to be FreightMicro, probably FreightMicro-Medium.  Not that I know where FreightMicro came from.</p>
<p>And wow, does it ever take a lot to get the character palette enabled.  I had to Google for it and then follow <a href="http://whatdoiknow.org/archives/000485.shtml" rel="nofollow">the very clear but lengthy instructions</a> from Todd Dominey.</p>
<p>Even more frustrating: when I look in the Unicode Table in the Character Palette, the proper symbol shows up at 2700F.  When I select it, the &#8220;collections containing selected character&#8221; shows me all of the FreightMicro variants, and Zapf Dingbats, which contains the character I actually want.</p>
<p><a href="#comment-10484" rel="nofollow">Rob</a>: nope, don&#8217;t use Suitcase.  I don&#8217;t think I&#8217;ve upgraded Safari recently, but either way Idoubt that&#8217;s the issue since the same problem appears in both Safari and Firefox.</p>
<p>I guess I can either dump FreightMicro, or else alter my CSS for that link to try symbol fonts instead of sans-serif fonts.  But if I understand Unicode handling properly, there&#8217;s no way FreightMicro should even be pretending that it has that character available.  So I&#8217;m kind of inclined to blow it away, just for being a bad actor.</p>
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		<title>By: Rob Weychert</title>
		<link>http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2005/12/15/pencilled-out/#comment-10484</link>
		<dc:creator>Rob Weychert</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Dec 2005 21:56:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2005/12/15/pencilled-out/#comment-10484</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s possible that the latest version of your browser is using a crappy version of a font that the previous browser version did not use. This has happened to me a bunch of times with Safari. If you use Suitcase, check to see if any fonts have been auto-activated. If any have, they are the culprits. Do a &quot;Reveal in Finder&quot; and delete them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s possible that the latest version of your browser is using a crappy version of a font that the previous browser version did not use. This has happened to me a bunch of times with Safari. If you use Suitcase, check to see if any fonts have been auto-activated. If any have, they are the culprits. Do a &#8220;Reveal in Finder&#8221; and delete them.</p>
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		<title>By: Steven Ametjan</title>
		<link>http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2005/12/15/pencilled-out/#comment-10483</link>
		<dc:creator>Steven Ametjan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Dec 2005 21:53:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2005/12/15/pencilled-out/#comment-10483</guid>
		<description>Also, you might want to try using the two other Unicode pencils &amp;#9998 (&#9998;) and &amp;#10000 (&#10000;).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Also, you might want to try using the two other Unicode pencils &amp;#9998 (&#9998;) and &amp;#10000 (&#10000;).</p>
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		<title>By: Steven Ametjan</title>
		<link>http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2005/12/15/pencilled-out/#comment-10482</link>
		<dc:creator>Steven Ametjan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Dec 2005 21:48:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2005/12/15/pencilled-out/#comment-10482</guid>
		<description>Since I don&#039;t have the same fonts as you do, I can only offer a tip on how best to discover which font it is. If you open the OSX Character Palette, under the Unicode Blocks tab, select Latin Extended-A, and at the bottom of the table you will find a &quot;Latin Catipal Letter Z With Caron&quot; and you can view all the fonts containing the selected character in the &quot;Collections&quot; section of the window. The closest font that I have to what you show is ITC Lubalin Graph Demi. Hope that helps.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Since I don&#8217;t have the same fonts as you do, I can only offer a tip on how best to discover which font it is. If you open the OSX Character Palette, under the Unicode Blocks tab, select Latin Extended-A, and at the bottom of the table you will find a &#8220;Latin Catipal Letter Z With Caron&#8221; and you can view all the fonts containing the selected character in the &#8220;Collections&#8221; section of the window. The closest font that I have to what you show is ITC Lubalin Graph Demi. Hope that helps.</p>
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		<title>By: june</title>
		<link>http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2005/12/15/pencilled-out/#comment-10481</link>
		<dc:creator>june</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Dec 2005 21:48:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2005/12/15/pencilled-out/#comment-10481</guid>
		<description>you could try using this tool:

http://stcassociates.com/lab/fontbrowser.html

...and hit the special character button. You&#039;d then have to scroll through all of your fonts to find the &quot;z&quot; 

Probably not the quickest or most direct way to find the &quot;z&quot;&#039;s font...but its one way none the less.

 </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>you could try using this tool:</p>
<p><a href="http://stcassociates.com/lab/fontbrowser.html" rel="nofollow">http://stcassociates.com/lab/fontbrowser.html</a></p>
<p>&#8230;and hit the special character button. You&#8217;d then have to scroll through all of your fonts to find the &#8220;z&#8221; </p>
<p>Probably not the quickest or most direct way to find the &#8220;z&#8221;&#8216;s font&#8230;but its one way none the less.</p>
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