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	<title>Comments on: line-height: abnormal</title>
	<atom:link href="http://meyerweb.com/index.php?year=2008&#038;monthnum=05&#038;day=06&#038;name=line-height-abnormal&#038;feed=feed" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2008/05/06/line-height-abnormal/</link>
	<description>Things that Eric A. Meyer, CSS expert, writes about on his personal Web site; it&#039;s largely Web standards and Web technology, but also various bits of culture, politics, personal observations, and other miscellaneous stuff</description>
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		<title>By: The Firefox Input Button Line-Height Bug</title>
		<link>http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2008/05/06/line-height-abnormal/#comment-493429</link>
		<dc:creator>The Firefox Input Button Line-Height Bug</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Feb 2010 22:21:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2008/05/06/line-height-abnormal/#comment-493429</guid>
		<description>[...] their part, particularly considering (as Eric Meyer has pointed out at great and detailed length), line-height: normal is anything but.And while trying to work around this rule, I discovered something that makes the situation a little [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] their part, particularly considering (as Eric Meyer has pointed out at great and detailed length), line-height: normal is anything but.And while trying to work around this rule, I discovered something that makes the situation a little [...]</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Bill Brown</title>
		<link>http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2008/05/06/line-height-abnormal/#comment-492026</link>
		<dc:creator>Bill Brown</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Feb 2010 16:26:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2008/05/06/line-height-abnormal/#comment-492026</guid>
		<description>Please ignore my previous post.

The solution I posted does NOT solve the problem. An !important rule in the User Agent style sheet cannot be over-ridden by an author style sheet.

As of 2010-FEB-08 (and as far as I know), there remains no solution.

Bill</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Please ignore my previous post.</p>
<p>The solution I posted does NOT solve the problem. An !important rule in the User Agent style sheet cannot be over-ridden by an author style sheet.</p>
<p>As of 2010-FEB-08 (and as far as I know), there remains no solution.</p>
<p>Bill</p>
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	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Bill Brown</title>
		<link>http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2008/05/06/line-height-abnormal/#comment-491820</link>
		<dc:creator>Bill Brown</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Feb 2010 18:30:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2008/05/06/line-height-abnormal/#comment-491820</guid>
		<description>Hi, Eric,

As usual, I stmbled across your site today while surfing for a CSS solution. My problem was with Firefox/Win. I&#039;m on Ubuntu, and oddly enough, the issue doesn&#039;t exist there.

I&#039;m developing an Armenian/English translator and I noticed that FF/Win was chopping off the bottoms of some of the Armenian glyphs in text input boxes. I assumed a line-height:1.5 rule would help, but quickly noticed that Firefox was ignoring any line-height settings on input elements.

A quick check in Firebug revealed that the FF/Win style sheet is declaring input{line-height:normal!important;}.

Re-declaring !important and over-specifying the selector, I changed the style sheet on the site to this:
:root input[type=text]{line-height:1.5!important;}
...which fixed the problem.

I&#039;m posting it here since this page came up during my Google search and anybody searching in the future might benefit from this tidbit. Hope you don&#039;t mind. :)
--Bill</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi, Eric,</p>
<p>As usual, I stmbled across your site today while surfing for a CSS solution. My problem was with Firefox/Win. I&#8217;m on Ubuntu, and oddly enough, the issue doesn&#8217;t exist there.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m developing an Armenian/English translator and I noticed that FF/Win was chopping off the bottoms of some of the Armenian glyphs in text input boxes. I assumed a line-height:1.5 rule would help, but quickly noticed that Firefox was ignoring any line-height settings on input elements.</p>
<p>A quick check in Firebug revealed that the FF/Win style sheet is declaring input{line-height:normal!important;}.</p>
<p>Re-declaring !important and over-specifying the selector, I changed the style sheet on the site to this:<br />
:root input[type=text]{line-height:1.5!important;}<br />
&#8230;which fixed the problem.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m posting it here since this page came up during my Google search and anybody searching in the future might benefit from this tidbit. Hope you don&#8217;t mind. :)<br />
&#8211;Bill</p>
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		<title>By: anonymous</title>
		<link>http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2008/05/06/line-height-abnormal/#comment-457628</link>
		<dc:creator>anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Apr 2009 19:07:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2008/05/06/line-height-abnormal/#comment-457628</guid>
		<description>i&#039;m confused. united line-height can cause text overlap, while unitless/multiplier can break vertical rhythm. if unitless line-height is being advocated, how do you recommend avoiding breaking vertical rhythm?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>i&#8217;m confused. united line-height can cause text overlap, while unitless/multiplier can break vertical rhythm. if unitless line-height is being advocated, how do you recommend avoiding breaking vertical rhythm?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Robert Williams</title>
		<link>http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2008/05/06/line-height-abnormal/#comment-456262</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert Williams</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Apr 2009 19:14:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2008/05/06/line-height-abnormal/#comment-456262</guid>
		<description>Hinting may be effecting the line height. There are vertical hints in fonts. If it is, then the line height may also change depending on which what letters you use and if anti-aliasing is turned off or on.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hinting may be effecting the line height. There are vertical hints in fonts. If it is, then the line height may also change depending on which what letters you use and if anti-aliasing is turned off or on.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Eric&#8217;s Archived Thoughts: line-height: abnormal &#124; CSS Tutorials - CSSHelper.net</title>
		<link>http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2008/05/06/line-height-abnormal/#comment-449108</link>
		<dc:creator>Eric&#8217;s Archived Thoughts: line-height: abnormal &#124; CSS Tutorials - CSSHelper.net</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Mar 2009 09:27:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2008/05/06/line-height-abnormal/#comment-449108</guid>
		<description>[...] Source [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Source [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Michael Lee Finney</title>
		<link>http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2008/05/06/line-height-abnormal/#comment-415403</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Lee Finney</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Oct 2008 10:11:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2008/05/06/line-height-abnormal/#comment-415403</guid>
		<description>I have found that if I select a font with &quot;font-size: #px&quot; that the font that I get back has ascender + descender = #, which is also the height that I get from using line-height:100%. If I then use line-height:normal I get ## = ascender + descender + internalLeading + externalLeading where the externalLeading component is added by some browsers and not by others. It is zero for most fonts. Typically I have found a pixel or two variation in line-height:normal result, but it is very close between several browsers and across several dozen fonts and handfull of font sizes. I found only one case where line-height:normal &lt; line-height:100% and that was where the font had a garbage value for the internalLeading value. There are some fonts with internalLeading = 0 and in that case line-height:100% = line-height:normal unless the externalLeading is non-zero, which doesn&#039;t affect all browsers. The minor variations I get are probably due to round-off, fudge factors and slight differences in font matching results. However, this seems to be extremely consistent.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have found that if I select a font with &#8220;font-size: #px&#8221; that the font that I get back has ascender + descender = #, which is also the height that I get from using line-height:100%. If I then use line-height:normal I get ## = ascender + descender + internalLeading + externalLeading where the externalLeading component is added by some browsers and not by others. It is zero for most fonts. Typically I have found a pixel or two variation in line-height:normal result, but it is very close between several browsers and across several dozen fonts and handfull of font sizes. I found only one case where line-height:normal &lt; line-height:100% and that was where the font had a garbage value for the internalLeading value. There are some fonts with internalLeading = 0 and in that case line-height:100% = line-height:normal unless the externalLeading is non-zero, which doesn&#8217;t affect all browsers. The minor variations I get are probably due to round-off, fudge factors and slight differences in font matching results. However, this seems to be extremely consistent.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Michael Lee Finney</title>
		<link>http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2008/05/06/line-height-abnormal/#comment-415372</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Lee Finney</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Oct 2008 05:22:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2008/05/06/line-height-abnormal/#comment-415372</guid>
		<description>I have been looking at the font-height issue also because I want to extract font-metrics in JavaScript. I have found that line-height:normal gives just enough vertical space to display all of the characters. If you display a box drawing character plus an open bracket or brace typically there is one pixel above and below the black space. Obviously that may vary a bit, but if you want the metrics then line-height:normal gives the minimum height you need to display a line of text without overlap.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have been looking at the font-height issue also because I want to extract font-metrics in JavaScript. I have found that line-height:normal gives just enough vertical space to display all of the characters. If you display a box drawing character plus an open bracket or brace typically there is one pixel above and below the black space. Obviously that may vary a bit, but if you want the metrics then line-height:normal gives the minimum height you need to display a line of text without overlap.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Mnemonic</title>
		<link>http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2008/05/06/line-height-abnormal/#comment-394259</link>
		<dc:creator>Mnemonic</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 Jul 2008 22:36:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2008/05/06/line-height-abnormal/#comment-394259</guid>
		<description>Re:  &quot;Update 7 May 08: I&quot;ve updated the test page with a fix from Ben Lowery so that it works in IE...&quot;

It doesn&#039;t work in 6.0.2900.....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Re:  &#8220;Update 7 May 08: I&#8221;ve updated the test page with a fix from Ben Lowery so that it works in IE&#8230;&#8221;</p>
<p>It doesn&#8217;t work in 6.0.2900&#8230;..</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: hangfromthefloor</title>
		<link>http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2008/05/06/line-height-abnormal/#comment-377662</link>
		<dc:creator>hangfromthefloor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 May 2008 01:34:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2008/05/06/line-height-abnormal/#comment-377662</guid>
		<description>Anybody notice anything strange with line-spacing and Cambria Math?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Anybody notice anything strange with line-spacing and Cambria Math?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Tor Hershman</title>
		<link>http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2008/05/06/line-height-abnormal/#comment-376772</link>
		<dc:creator>Tor Hershman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 May 2008 22:07:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2008/05/06/line-height-abnormal/#comment-376772</guid>
		<description>And for the others, if any, that have no idea what &#039;rugose&#039; means.....

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/rugose

Stay on groovin&#039; (Say what?) safari,
Tor</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And for the others, if any, that have no idea what &#8216;rugose&#8217; means&#8230;..</p>
<p><a href="http://www.thefreedictionary.com/rugose" rel="nofollow">http://www.thefreedictionary.com/rugose</a></p>
<p>Stay on groovin&#8217; (Say what?) safari,<br />
Tor</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: CSS Collection &#187; Blog Archive &#187; line-height: abnormal</title>
		<link>http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2008/05/06/line-height-abnormal/#comment-376107</link>
		<dc:creator>CSS Collection &#187; Blog Archive &#187; line-height: abnormal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 May 2008 13:49:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2008/05/06/line-height-abnormal/#comment-376107</guid>
		<description>[...] the great CSS master, Eric Meyer, gets frustrated with line layout. He thinks out loud about line-height: normal, which is more like abnormal. Take a look.  Friday, May 16th &#124; [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] the great CSS master, Eric Meyer, gets frustrated with line layout. He thinks out loud about line-height: normal, which is more like abnormal. Take a look.  Friday, May 16th | [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Great Resources Elsewhere: May 08 to May 15 - CSSnewbie</title>
		<link>http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2008/05/06/line-height-abnormal/#comment-376027</link>
		<dc:creator>Great Resources Elsewhere: May 08 to May 15 - CSSnewbie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 May 2008 07:02:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2008/05/06/line-height-abnormal/#comment-376027</guid>
		<description>[...] Eric&#8217;s Archived Thoughts: line-height: abnormal [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Eric&#8217;s Archived Thoughts: line-height: abnormal [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Links of Interest - CSS-Tricks</title>
		<link>http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2008/05/06/line-height-abnormal/#comment-375303</link>
		<dc:creator>Links of Interest - CSS-Tricks</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 May 2008 12:45:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2008/05/06/line-height-abnormal/#comment-375303</guid>
		<description>[...] Meyer digs into some of the peculiarities of line-height: Here&quot;s the punchline: the effects of declaring [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Meyer digs into some of the peculiarities of line-height: Here&#8221;s the punchline: the effects of declaring [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Smokey Ardisson</title>
		<link>http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2008/05/06/line-height-abnormal/#comment-375051</link>
		<dc:creator>Smokey Ardisson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 May 2008 18:55:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2008/05/06/line-height-abnormal/#comment-375051</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote cite=&quot;http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2008/05/06/line-height-abnormal/#comment-373387&quot;&gt;2. Thanks for the bug 399636 reference. I&quot;ll argue that what Gecko does is deeply unexpected, and very possibly incorrect. If I go into any text editor, set the font to “Webdings”, and type “Oy!”, I&quot;ll get three symbols---the glyphs defined in that font for the characters I input. In Gecko 1.9, I get substitutes from an entirely different and unrelated font face. That makes very, very little sense to me (and, I&quot;d wager, to almost anyone).&lt;/blockquote&gt;
What Gecko 1.9 does is absolutely correct and expected in a Unicode world.  If this were 1990, I&quot;d (possibly) agree with your statement, but not in a Unicode world.  When you typed “Oy!”, you requested the glyphs for “O” “y” and “!”, not those for “ear”, “circle with a horizontal line through the center”, and “spider”[1].  If Webdings does not contain the glyphs “O” “y” and “!”, then the application should select another font that does contain those glyphs in order to display “Oy!” properly.  Gecko 1.9 does this. 

Changing a font face should &lt;em&gt;never&lt;/em&gt; change the glyph displayed.  Unicode requires every glyph to have a unique “id”, and the only way to display that glyph is to use its id; interoperability (and machine comprehensibility) depends on it.  Or, put another way, think of the glyphs like HTML structure and the font face as CSS presentation; if I have a &lt;p&gt; element somewhere and I change the font-size for that &lt;p&gt; in CSS, that doesn&quot;t suddenly turn the &lt;p&gt; into an &lt;h1&gt; element.

By the way, I don&quot;t know what text editor you&quot;re using, but in any Unicode-based application, changing the font to Webdings and typing “Oy!” produces the glyphs “Oy!” (try in TextEdit on Mac OS X, for instance).

[1] As long as you didn&quot;t first switch to a dingbats keyboard layout; if you used a Unicode dingbats layout to request the Unicode glyphs for “ear”, “circle with a horizontal line through the center”, and “spider” (or whatever they may be called), you should see those glyphs provided you have a font that contains them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote cite="http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2008/05/06/line-height-abnormal/#comment-373387"><p>2. Thanks for the bug 399636 reference. I&#8221;ll argue that what Gecko does is deeply unexpected, and very possibly incorrect. If I go into any text editor, set the font to “Webdings”, and type “Oy!”, I&#8221;ll get three symbols&#8212;the glyphs defined in that font for the characters I input. In Gecko 1.9, I get substitutes from an entirely different and unrelated font face. That makes very, very little sense to me (and, I&#8221;d wager, to almost anyone).</p></blockquote>
<p>What Gecko 1.9 does is absolutely correct and expected in a Unicode world.  If this were 1990, I&#8221;d (possibly) agree with your statement, but not in a Unicode world.  When you typed “Oy!”, you requested the glyphs for “O” “y” and “!”, not those for “ear”, “circle with a horizontal line through the center”, and “spider”[1].  If Webdings does not contain the glyphs “O” “y” and “!”, then the application should select another font that does contain those glyphs in order to display “Oy!” properly.  Gecko 1.9 does this. </p>
<p>Changing a font face should <em>never</em> change the glyph displayed.  Unicode requires every glyph to have a unique “id”, and the only way to display that glyph is to use its id; interoperability (and machine comprehensibility) depends on it.  Or, put another way, think of the glyphs like HTML structure and the font face as CSS presentation; if I have a &lt;p&gt; element somewhere and I change the font-size for that &lt;p&gt; in CSS, that doesn&#8221;t suddenly turn the &lt;p&gt; into an &lt;h1&gt; element.</p>
<p>By the way, I don&#8221;t know what text editor you&#8221;re using, but in any Unicode-based application, changing the font to Webdings and typing “Oy!” produces the glyphs “Oy!” (try in TextEdit on Mac OS X, for instance).</p>
<p>[1] As long as you didn&#8221;t first switch to a dingbats keyboard layout; if you used a Unicode dingbats layout to request the Unicode glyphs for “ear”, “circle with a horizontal line through the center”, and “spider” (or whatever they may be called), you should see those glyphs provided you have a font that contains them.</p>
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